Well, this is a little awkward....
- Thread starter Retro Stereo
- Start date
![JimJ[VT]](/forums/data/avatars/m/20/20031.jpg?1443894878){kind=avatar}
Well to be honest, most of the Pioneer integrated amps and all of the floroscan stuff is pretty much gone (sold) already. I will be keeping my EchoWars rebuilt SPEC equipment, but just about everything else will be sold off at some time in the future as well.
www.records
Quality over Quantity
Great looking system Retro. I wonder how the boys over on Pioneer and SS will react? You gonna come clean to them or just gonna wait and see how long it takes for them to miss ya?
I think you have made the right decision and am anxious to see your impression once you get it all setup and ears tuned.
Any idea of when you will have all this together and set up?
I think you have made the right decision and am anxious to see your impression once you get it all setup and ears tuned.
Any idea of when you will have all this together and set up?
audiodon
Addicted Member
Every technology has its merits and demerits. I've heard a lot of solid state stuff that I really like. I've heard a lot of well regarded tube stuff that I just don't love. That being said, it's nice for Retro to be starting pretty high up on the food chain. Welcome.
My theory about tubes is that when they distort, which they do as any overdriven technology will, they distort with a harmonic structure that we've come to love through hundreds or thousands of years of trial and error musical instrument making. So they complement the instrumentation and the human voice.
One more thought on that Marantz player. I've upgraded all my players including CD, universal, and turntable in the last few years to the point where the difference is only a matter of format and presentation. They're all good. I like SACD a lot, but we'll see how much new stuff comes down the pike. We could all eventually be talking blu-ray audio for digital output. Apparently Dolby Tru-HD is lossless MLP licensed from Meridian. My choice was to upgrade to Lexicon, which uses a Marantz player as the baseline and mods it. I really like it but I couldn't tell you the Marantz model number the Lexicon is sourced from or what Lexicon changed.
Don
My theory about tubes is that when they distort, which they do as any overdriven technology will, they distort with a harmonic structure that we've come to love through hundreds or thousands of years of trial and error musical instrument making. So they complement the instrumentation and the human voice.
One more thought on that Marantz player. I've upgraded all my players including CD, universal, and turntable in the last few years to the point where the difference is only a matter of format and presentation. They're all good. I like SACD a lot, but we'll see how much new stuff comes down the pike. We could all eventually be talking blu-ray audio for digital output. Apparently Dolby Tru-HD is lossless MLP licensed from Meridian. My choice was to upgrade to Lexicon, which uses a Marantz player as the baseline and mods it. I really like it but I couldn't tell you the Marantz model number the Lexicon is sourced from or what Lexicon changed.
Don
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I'm still keeping a good portion of my Pioneer SPEC equipment, so I'll still have plenty of SS to play around with. The Forte' Amp is SS by the way, but that was the least expensive part of this venture, and could be replaced by a nice tube amp in the future, if I like what I hear.
I'm hoping to have everything set up by next weekend, in some form or another. I'm not sure it will be a permanent set up, probably not, but I have a lot of time to make it work better for me in the future.
The Marantz player is the only part of this set up, well besides winning the new speakers, that I bought new and it comes with a 3 year bumper-to-bumper warranty. I probably won't be doing any upgrading with that while under warranty, just in case it voids my warranty. In reading the various upgrade options on Audiogon, it can be modded to match Marantz's TOTL CDP for well under $1000 and that unit sells for more than $4000 (best price I've seen) more than I paid for this one. I have 2, count them, 2, SACDs at this writing, but just ordered 11 more and will be filling in that void big time in the near future. The Miles Davis SACD I played on this new Marantz sounded just awesome, and I am looking forward to hearing more. So, no matter what the near future brings, for now, I'm stuck in SACD/CD format for the next 3 years or so, and after hearing what this Marantz can do, I'm okay with that.
Might be nice to try some 12BH7s and/or 6BZ7/6BQ7As in place of the 'AU7s and 'DJ8s, respectively? We're finding that the 12BH7s just smack the hell out of 'AU7s in dynamics, and the 6BZ7s are far quieter than 6DJ8s, in quite a few cases...
Regards,
Gordon.
a_retent
In memory of Trixie woo-woo
Well Ron, as you already know, you'll be hearing the Lamm LL2D tomorrow in your wonderful system.
Can I be a fly on the wall at your place Ron? Can I huh? Can I huh? Huh, can I?:grnbounce
(I wasn't too pushy was I?)
jaymanaa
RIP 1961-2018
Good ideas Gordon, and I just happen to have lots of both of those numbers to try. Do we have the specs on the power TX to make sure it will handle the extra filament current of the 12BH7s?:scratch2:
zenith2134
Lunatic Member
hey, a little late to this thread but here goes it anyway.
Retro Stereo, I'm glad you finally took the 'plunge' into tube hifi. While I am a pretty thorough supporter of SS gear, there will always be a tube SOMETHING in my rig. And if I ever pick up my strat again (lol) It'll be 8 watts of vintage-VM single ended madness. :thmbsp:
Retro Stereo, I'm glad you finally took the 'plunge' into tube hifi. While I am a pretty thorough supporter of SS gear, there will always be a tube SOMETHING in my rig. And if I ever pick up my strat again (lol) It'll be 8 watts of vintage-VM single ended madness. :thmbsp:
audiodon
Addicted Member
RetroStereo,
Here are a few of my favorite SACDs
Rock/Pop
Peter Gabriel - There's a compliation i can't recall the name of, but it sounds great. Vinyl quality.
Ray Charles -Ray Sings, Basie Swings - Ray at his interpretive best in the late '70s or early '80s, with a recording using Ray's voice from then and new arrangements by today's Basie Orchestra and new backup singers. Outstanding.
Ray Charles - Genius loves company. I don't like this one. It was too late in Ray's career and his voice shows it.
Beck - Sea Change - great audio and great music
Tony Bennett and KD Lang - Wonderful World. This one will show you just how SACD matters. What is best may surprise you . .. the improvement in the smoothness of the bass.
More later. . . .called away.
Back now.
Willie Nelson - Stardust. The man's thin and reedy voice warms up in a super way on SACD and becomes much more warm and full. Some people consider this a downer. I don't. It is slow paced, but sounds great and is well performed.
Alison Krauss & Union Station Live (2 disk) on Rounder. Well recorded. Ya gotta like pickin' though.
Alison Krauss & Union Station New Favorite - comparable.
Classical -
Mahler's 3rd - Chially conducting - An all out balls to the wall performance good as two channel or full surround performed with no restraint. Rock and Roll from the classical set. There's some great Bach organ stuff filling out disk 2. Mahler's 3rd is the longest symphony in the performance canon.
Beethoven 7th on Orfeo with Carlos Kleiber conducting. This is a great and lively performance.
Stokowsky - Rhapsodies on RCA living stereo (3 channels hybrid SACD). Stokowsky knew the hifi audience. He used to do things like line up all the big bass instruments in a semicircle at the back of the orchestra. Everything on here is recorded around 1960 and this is 70 minutes of the best of first generation hifi. This will test your system!
Mahler's 4th on RCA living stereo - a definitive performance by Fritz Reiner and the Chicago Symphony. Again - 3 channel.
Berlioz Requiem - I can't recall the conductor, but there's a stone angel on the cover. Great performance. Great recording. This is an oratorio and is an acquired taste, but that thing where they separate the horn sections and place them in different parts of the hall is hauntingly wonderful, especially in surround.
Saint Saens - Organ Symphony - RCA Living Stereo/Munch - Outstanding performance by an orchestra that liked their conductor. Sounds great in the shoebox shaped Boston Symphony Hall. I've gone to the hall and heard that Organ Symphony there, with that organ, and I can vouch for the accuracy of this performance. By the way, this isn't a vampire soundtrack kind of organish thing . . . the organ is very laid back and is used as an accent piece. There's another one recorded in Philadelphia that's also great, but I like the other material on the Munch disk better.
Here are a few of my favorite SACDs
Rock/Pop
Peter Gabriel - There's a compliation i can't recall the name of, but it sounds great. Vinyl quality.
Ray Charles -Ray Sings, Basie Swings - Ray at his interpretive best in the late '70s or early '80s, with a recording using Ray's voice from then and new arrangements by today's Basie Orchestra and new backup singers. Outstanding.
Ray Charles - Genius loves company. I don't like this one. It was too late in Ray's career and his voice shows it.
Beck - Sea Change - great audio and great music
Tony Bennett and KD Lang - Wonderful World. This one will show you just how SACD matters. What is best may surprise you . .. the improvement in the smoothness of the bass.
More later. . . .called away.
Back now.
Willie Nelson - Stardust. The man's thin and reedy voice warms up in a super way on SACD and becomes much more warm and full. Some people consider this a downer. I don't. It is slow paced, but sounds great and is well performed.
Alison Krauss & Union Station Live (2 disk) on Rounder. Well recorded. Ya gotta like pickin' though.
Alison Krauss & Union Station New Favorite - comparable.
Classical -
Mahler's 3rd - Chially conducting - An all out balls to the wall performance good as two channel or full surround performed with no restraint. Rock and Roll from the classical set. There's some great Bach organ stuff filling out disk 2. Mahler's 3rd is the longest symphony in the performance canon.
Beethoven 7th on Orfeo with Carlos Kleiber conducting. This is a great and lively performance.
Stokowsky - Rhapsodies on RCA living stereo (3 channels hybrid SACD). Stokowsky knew the hifi audience. He used to do things like line up all the big bass instruments in a semicircle at the back of the orchestra. Everything on here is recorded around 1960 and this is 70 minutes of the best of first generation hifi. This will test your system!
Mahler's 4th on RCA living stereo - a definitive performance by Fritz Reiner and the Chicago Symphony. Again - 3 channel.
Berlioz Requiem - I can't recall the conductor, but there's a stone angel on the cover. Great performance. Great recording. This is an oratorio and is an acquired taste, but that thing where they separate the horn sections and place them in different parts of the hall is hauntingly wonderful, especially in surround.
Saint Saens - Organ Symphony - RCA Living Stereo/Munch - Outstanding performance by an orchestra that liked their conductor. Sounds great in the shoebox shaped Boston Symphony Hall. I've gone to the hall and heard that Organ Symphony there, with that organ, and I can vouch for the accuracy of this performance. By the way, this isn't a vampire soundtrack kind of organish thing . . . the organ is very laid back and is used as an accent piece. There's another one recorded in Philadelphia that's also great, but I like the other material on the Munch disk better.
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doucanoe
Registered Audio Abuser
Retro dropped by this afternoon with his new Lamm LL2s2 and Marantz SA-11 in tow. I had the pleasure of carrying in the massive Marantz in myself. Man oh man, that is one well built deck!
The Lamm took the place of an octal preamp I have been running and we set up to be able to switch on the fly between the SA-11 and my own SA-8001 (SA-11s2 direct input and SA-8001 standard). After letting everything warm up for a spell, we were ready to let the games begin.
We started off with a Vinicius Cantuaria redbook CD that I was very familiar with through the SA-8001. Right from the get go, the Lamm showed me why this preamp gets all the accolades it does. Its presentation when compared to my pre (very nice imo) was rich with depth and detail but did not have the darker personality of the 6SN7 tubed octal. The Lamm is not one of those tube preamps that some say lean toward SS or a SS preamp that reports to sound “tube like”. I would say that the Lamm just sounds like the best preamp I have ever had had in this system tube or otherwise.
After switching to the SA-11 for a spell and back again, I noticed (to my dismay as I really wasn't expecting it) quite a difference between the two players. The SA-8001 sounded nice, but lacked the same weight in the LF and a bit forward/bright in comparison in the HF. This really became evident when we played the Miles SACD. The SA-11 really fleshed out all the information in very luxurious fashion and the SA-8001 while pleasant, was a little bright to my ears and had a tougher time with inner detail.
It then dawned on me that I was still using the silver IC’s that had only a week or so ago been connecting a Revox B226. I felt at the time that the silvers had done a better job with the old Revox than copper. After we made a switch back to some copper IC’s, the playback of the SA-8001 was greatly improved by the change but still stayed a good step or so behind the SA-11. The SA-11 is a better deck (SACD) without a doubt.
Oh, and for those of you who claim that all interconnects are created equal. Go switch out some copper core to silver (or vica versa) on a digital source, using nice gear and then come talk to me. If you can’t discern a difference, I will shake your hand and concede your inability to hear a difference
The Lamm LL2 and Marantz SA-11 make for big time HiFi with a capitol B. I can live very happily with my SA-8001 and just dream about owning a SA-11 but the Lamm, oh the Lamm…
RC
The Lamm took the place of an octal preamp I have been running and we set up to be able to switch on the fly between the SA-11 and my own SA-8001 (SA-11s2 direct input and SA-8001 standard). After letting everything warm up for a spell, we were ready to let the games begin.
We started off with a Vinicius Cantuaria redbook CD that I was very familiar with through the SA-8001. Right from the get go, the Lamm showed me why this preamp gets all the accolades it does. Its presentation when compared to my pre (very nice imo) was rich with depth and detail but did not have the darker personality of the 6SN7 tubed octal. The Lamm is not one of those tube preamps that some say lean toward SS or a SS preamp that reports to sound “tube like”. I would say that the Lamm just sounds like the best preamp I have ever had had in this system tube or otherwise.
After switching to the SA-11 for a spell and back again, I noticed (to my dismay as I really wasn't expecting it) quite a difference between the two players. The SA-8001 sounded nice, but lacked the same weight in the LF and a bit forward/bright in comparison in the HF. This really became evident when we played the Miles SACD. The SA-11 really fleshed out all the information in very luxurious fashion and the SA-8001 while pleasant, was a little bright to my ears and had a tougher time with inner detail.
It then dawned on me that I was still using the silver IC’s that had only a week or so ago been connecting a Revox B226. I felt at the time that the silvers had done a better job with the old Revox than copper. After we made a switch back to some copper IC’s, the playback of the SA-8001 was greatly improved by the change but still stayed a good step or so behind the SA-11. The SA-11 is a better deck (SACD) without a doubt.
Oh, and for those of you who claim that all interconnects are created equal. Go switch out some copper core to silver (or vica versa) on a digital source, using nice gear and then come talk to me. If you can’t discern a difference, I will shake your hand and concede your inability to hear a difference
The Lamm LL2 and Marantz SA-11 make for big time HiFi with a capitol B. I can live very happily with my SA-8001 and just dream about owning a SA-11 but the Lamm, oh the Lamm…
RC
Redboy
a few good watts
Nice review, Ron! That Lamm sound like a real winner - maybe one will pop up on CL at $10 for me...
:lmao:If you can’t discern a difference, I will shake your hand and concede your inability to hear a difference
I pretty much concur with Ron's review, right down to the difference between the copper and silver cables!
I am very happy with the Marantz & Lamm, and I think I may be pretty much "set" on those two components after our listening session yesterday. If any tweaking on this system needs to be done in the future, I'm pretty sure it will end up being amp and speakers only.
I am very happy with the Marantz & Lamm, and I think I may be pretty much "set" on those two components after our listening session yesterday. If any tweaking on this system needs to be done in the future, I'm pretty sure it will end up being amp and speakers only.
jaymanaa
RIP 1961-2018
Great reviews guys.:thmbsp: Nate, all you need to do is find a schematic.:yes: On the copper silver deal, I learned the hard way that "too much" silver inside an amplifier is not always a good thing. I think I have found a pretty happy medium by using silver in the signal path (except for passive leads of course), and copper in the grounding. All silver can sound thin, and "tinny" to my ears.
Hey Mr. Greg, are you gonna bring that pre to the mini-fest (I hope).:drool:
Hey Mr. Greg, are you gonna bring that pre to the mini-fest (I hope).:drool: