Wharfedale W60D-Homecoming

[adpopulum]

Discolouration behind those purple Wharfedale tweets is common and does not necessarily indicate failure. Get an ohm meter. FWIW I have never come across a speaker where all of the drivers are toast (even 2 way jobbers). Usually the tweeter goes and they get stored until disposed of. My money is on something wonky between the speaker terminals and the drivers.

 

[Gang-Twanger]

I agree Roger, as Gang noted while it may have once been of a rubbery nature it is much more firm now to my brief and gentle touch so I will just make sure it works and leave the dimple alone.

So Gang this is probably an early W60D? Would that be 64 as opposed to 74 as far as the "10/4" written on the woofer cone, October 1964 date of manufacture for the woofer?

Wouldn't be '74. That would be the W*0E series (starting in '71, as far as I know). And I HAVE seen speakers show up on AK with drivers from 2 years earlier. I believe the earliest W60D's were introduced sometime in '67 possibly LATE '67, but anything's possible with these. So, October '64 would confirm them as some very-early W60D's.

 

[toups]

Here is a drawing of the cross over from a W60D that I have acquired as individual parts. I have cabinet of a W60E and that's the rub. There are some differences in mounting the drivers so I haven't created the Frankenspeaker yet.

I have drawn the two adjustable resistors (or potentiometers or pots for short) as two resistors. The sum of the two resistors making up the pot is 50 ohms. The capacitor values are those printed on the capacitors. I have not measured the inductors. My second inductor is yellow rather than green.

I too am dubious that all of the drivers are dead. Note from the schematic I posted that all of the drivers in parallel. So if nothing is working, check to see if the binding posts still connect to the wires. All speakers have one lead connected to the minus binding post (yellow wire in my case.)

Notice if the pots are turned to minimum sound level, the corresponding mid-range or tweeter receives no drive voltage because the pot will have a value of 0 ohms between the tap that drives the speaker and the minus binding post. So if the pots are on minimum then neither the mid-range or tweeter will work. Turn the resistors to the maximum sound setting for further testing.

With a simple ohm meter, you can do a lot of testing. Test each speaker with an ohm meter. However, there are a few things you will need to do.

First, before testing switch both pots to the maximum volume position, otherwise, you will read nearly 0 ohms for the mid-range unless you do.

One caution you will not be able to measure the resistance of the tweeter without disconnecting it from the cross over. It is in parallel with an inductor so a simple ohm meter will read nearly 0 ohms unless you disconnect it. I recommend not disconnecting the wire at the tweeter. Instead do it near the cross over or better yet somewhere in the middle of the wire and solder it or use a wire nut to repair the cut. You only need to disconnect one wire for testing.

Also, I think yours may have been re-capped. The main thing to watch out for is the correct value and if electrolytic capacitors where used (that's what yours look like to me) be sure they are non-polarized. Basically if you see a big - in a arrow or + sign near one side, that is not a good.

If the tweeter turns out to not work, check out http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=139198 for someone who managed to repair one. However since the wire is aluminum, you might want to get some help with this one. It is non trivial to impossible to solder. I managed to destroy one. I have some others that I will probably attempt to repair during one of the upcoming holidays. The failure mode is not them actually burning out from too much power, but the glue corroding the aluminum wire. If you look carefully, you might be able to see a break if they do not work.

++++++
P.S. Although my capacitors are 6 uF and 64 uF, these values (at least the latter) do not seem right. 25 uF would seem closer to the desired value, I'll have to investigate further. Maybe the caps in the cross-over I am examining are not original.

P.P.S. Verified the values with other images on the web, my values are consistent with other posted images.

 

[petes'picks]

Looks like you have access to the drivers with the rear panel off, I would turn down the bass pot and at a very low volume chk each driver with speaker wires by passing the xover.

 

[fairgent Z]

delete.

 

[Ishmael]

Ok guys let the beatings begin. :bash::bash: So this morning I take my Hitachi SR-504 receiver out to the garage. I follow Roger and Toup’s suggestions and carefully set up the receiver to play only the right channel and select the right speaker output for Speaker 1.

Now just to be sure I re-connect to the working speaker and then listen to each of its speakers. No problem, each speaker is playing music within its allotted bandwidth.

So, before I open up the dead speaker and begin testing each speaker I take my 18 gauge 6 ft lengths of bare ended (and quite frayed by now) test speaker wire and wrap them around the dead speaker's terminals, cinch down the knurled metal binder bolt, turn the attenuators up to their max setting and turn on the receiver (volume set at zero).

WHAT WAS THAT!?

That of course was the tick of a receiver coming on connected to a speaker. I hit play and “Taking it Easy” rolls out of the previously dead speaker.

Mia Culpa

I think this was a bunch of things all rolled together. This was my first drive six hours round trip to purchase a pair of speakers. From the pictures I had high hopes, now fulfilled, of what condition these speakers were in (yes on two back corners I will need to replace some missing walnut veneer and the case will get a Murphy oil cleaning followed by a coat of Restore Oil & Wax and there are those two capacitors to source and replace). And it was Halloween, cue up Mussorgsky-Night on Bald Mountain. So it was late on a long day and obviously in the rush to see if it worked I didn’t get one of the spade lugs connected right.

No Good Deed Left Undone

But fear not, I have copied all your suggestions, advice and they are safely in the Wharfedale W60D file. So today will be a different day, cleaning off the cadmium, really cleaning dust off the speaker surrounds, speaker case, grills, etc. Then bringing them inside to meet our Sansui 2000a on dedicated stands, pics will follow. But as the Terminator says “I’ll be back", don’t forget those replacement capacitors. In the mean time back to finishing that Eagles Greatest hits CD

 

[Ishmael]

Gang, as you mentioned the grills on this speaker are held on by very hold tight Velcro. However, on the previously dead speaker, someone used the brute force approach in removing the speaker grill and in doing so pulled over half of the Velcro wooly part tabs off the front baffle board. Here are my thoughts on ways to proceed:

1. Clean the old glue off the baffle board and then take some 5 min epoxy and glue the wooly part of the Velcro back on the baffle board.

2. Clean off the old glue and then purchase new same size Velcro with glue backing and cut to size and replace with new wooly part.

3. Staple the old Velcro in place ( I least like this idea, lets not make holes that were not intended).

If you or others have better solutions to re-attaching Velcro please let me know. Thanks.

P.S. except for the black plastic tweeter protector, Gang your speakers look identical to mine, a very nice pair.

 

[rogerfederer]

hey good news

how do they sound?

re the velcro; if you can use the existing velcro and just glue it back in place that would seem the easiest route

 

[toups]

No beatings here, been there done that! And no one bought me the t-shirt.

I'd probably just glue down the Velcro, but the do sell self adhesive Velcro so that might be a lot more convenient.

I assume your tweeters are working? Great!

The only question I have and this can probably be answered by GT, are the capacitor values in the cross-over (8uF and 25uF at 50V) correct or a poor choice in the re-capping? (The one I have seen use 6uF and 64 uF at 50V.)

I think you will enjoy these, not the strongest bass but not boomy and a nice smooth voice all around. Of course YMMV, some of us love them, others not so much. To each his own.

 

[Ishmael]

Both tweeters are working fine. Later today I will open up and take a look at the working speaker just to make sure they both have the same capacitors inside and report back. It’s going to be a busy day of cleaning.

Another question: Should I squirt the attenuators with Deoxit? I have read some AK posts where using Deoxit degraded rather than improved the attenuator. Maybe I am being overly cautious as I used it on the Linton and W70 attenuator with no ill effect.

The sound so far is very nice, but again this is with both attenuators turned to their max setting. The voices are to die for, and while not all that I get from the W70s, when playing Jimi Hendrix “Red House” they were not that far behind. Bass, it is that funny thing in music reproduction, and “reproduction” is kind of the key here, in that depending on how the music was recorded and then what your playback, pre-power amp does to it, the speaker is kind of way on down the chain.

Sadly I can readily tell the difference between modern, loudness wars, recordings and older recordings both in the bass and in the quality of the human voice. I think those controlling the mix in the pre-loudness age realized that singers want to be heard, rather than being an accessory to a drum machine. Take “Red House” for example. On both the W60D and W70 Jimi’s voice is clear and easily understood, the backing band and his solos come to the front and are excellent, but when he sings you can hear and understand what he is singing about. Finding those CDs, downloads, records that capture this magic to me is kind of the quest, but it doesn’t hurt to have sorted out your gear and have a couple “Excaliber” parts in your system.

 

[rogerfederer]

probably these speakers haven't been played for a while. you need to run them for a few days to wake up the drivers. sound should improve over this process.

 

[toups]

Both tweeters are working fine. Later today I will open up and take a look at the working speaker just to make sure they both have the same capacitors inside and report back. It’s going to be a busy day of cleaning.

Great news regarding the tweeters. Curious to see what you find regarding the capacitors.

Another question: Should I squirt the attenuators with Deoxit? I have read some AK posts where using Deoxit degraded rather than improved the attenuator. Maybe I am being overly cautious as I used it on the Linton and W70 attenuator with no ill effect.

It's taken me a long time to learn, if it ain't broke, don't fix it! Other than that, I'll defer to others.

The sound so far is very nice, but again this is with both attenuators turned to their max setting. The voices are to die for, and while not all that I get from the W70s, when playing Jimi Hendrix “Red House” they were not that far behind. Bass, it is that funny thing in music reproduction, and “reproduction” is kind of the key here, in that depending on how the music was recorded and then what your playback, pre-power amp does to it, the speaker is kind of way on down the chain.

Listen and enjoy!

Sadly I can readily tell the difference between modern, loudness wars, recordings and older recordings both in the bass and in the quality of the human voice. I think those controlling the mix in the pre-loudness age realized that singers want to be heard, rather than being an accessory to a drum machine. Take “Red House” for example. On both the W60D and W70 Jimi’s voice is clear and easily understood, the backing band and his solos come to the front and are excellent, but when he sings you can hear and understand what he is singing about. Finding those CDs, downloads, records that capture this magic to me is kind of the quest, but it doesn’t hurt to have sorted out your gear and have a couple “Excaliber” parts in your system.

I think you are on to something!

 

[Ishmael]

Differences

Today I opened the second speaker #D07457 to discover its woofer is different from #D07477, the former (#D07457) is square with a beautiful casting in the spider, where the other (#d07477) is round, but both again are pristine, rust free. It is funny to think that with just twenty speakers separating them in their production run you would see this change, note on #D07477 the earlier pictured round woofer there is no casting on the spider.

 

[Ishmael]

I can also shed more on the age of these speakers in that on D07457 the date written on the woofer is "3/68" or March 1968, I can't really decipher the other writing, please take a look and see what you think.





Toups the cross over capacitors on this second speaker are identical to those on the first, one is a 25uF 50v bipolar West Germany Frako-Eiko and the other one is a 8uF 50v identical markings. Given the age on the woofer I really think these are the original capacitors as in the late 60s and beyond the only parts we would get from Germany would be West Germany. Gang what do you think?

 

[Ishmael]

On the second cross over's attenuators there was serious cadmium, breathing mask and gloves worn and bagged after use. I squirted some Deoxit on a clean cotton rag and they cleaned up nicely, then cleaned the first speaker that hardly showed any cadmium, but the rag came away quite yellow so it was time to clean it too.

 

[Ishmael]

Well I am off to get some stuff before I start work on the cabinets. Speaking of which here is the sound absorbing liner, which appears to be 3/8ths of an inch thick, but has lost all of its compression, seems like it is made of a felt like material (if you push down on it, it stays down and never rises up).





Would this be the time to supplement/replace this? How would this change the sound, I may be getting ahead of myself as if it sounds OK as is when I bring it in and run it off the Sansui 2000A I may just leave it alone. What speaker fill/sound absorption materials have you used that have been successful on Wharfedale speakers?

Roger, improve, man that would be something and a good thought to hold onto.

 

[rogerfederer]

leave the foam for now; prob just fine

makes more sense to let the drivers wake up, recap the x-overs, before you try changing something like that.

 

[Ishmael]

Little things, to play the W60Ds upright rather than on their sides I needed to move the speaker badge, which was no problem except that the decades have faded the fabric so now there is a dark stripe above and below the speaker badge.

In the process of turning one speaker badge to its new orientation the brass part of the badged came apart from the metal plate/pin underneath it revealing rust which the rust inhibitor I applied turned blue and then got glued back together. I probably should have popped the other badge apart, but as you will see after NEAR DISASTER I was in a leave well enough alone mood.

 

[Ishmael]

Near Disaster-Roger warned me, leave the dust cap alone. You know what, in the future, any future, if there is a dimple in the dust cap, I will leave it be.

So what happened, no, it wasn't the tweeter's dust cap, that truly looked like a good way to ruin a tweeter made of fairly aged plastic/resin/rubber, instead it was the woofer. There was a simple little dimple in the dust cap of the woofer, so after vacuuming dust off the surrounds and front baffle I attempted to pull the dimple out.

:tears: I succeeded too well. I got too close and in a moment vacuum had pulled most of the dust cap off the woofer and loosened a toilet paper tissue thickness off the top of the woofer cone in places around where it had bonded to the dust cap. Say "OH ****" between every breath for the next five minutes if you have been there before:bash:

This is the second time for the bash smiley face today. But, I did have some left over of the dry invisible white speaker surround installation glue with a long nosed and very small application hole. I then, still chanting "OH ****" very carefully applied many, very small amounts of glue under the torn woofer cone paper/fabric and as I could to the edge of the dust cap. Tamped as much of the bubbles out and then used a small curved smooth plastic handle from my bike cleaning tool to smooth things out and down into the ridges of the cone.

Here's how it turned out, as mentioned earlier I believe I am cured of cosmetic fixes to working speakers forever.



You will note MR. DIMPLE is still with me, maybe he will be like a Zen Koan, you know "the sound of one hand clapping", but in this case "the echoes of "OH ****" in the silence".

 

[Ishmael]

A couple decades ago I would build beds and bookcases for my children, for me the moment that made all the hours worth it was when I applied the oil finish and got to see the grain and beauty of the wood.

The last thing for this weekend was the same, after cleaning the wood, taping the speaker front baffle and grill cloth next to the grill board I applied Howard's Walnut RestoraFinish (it was a perfect match). I did tape up the two corner spots I will revisit after I pick up some walnut veneer to patch them.

This may be the fist time in over 40 years that this wood had been oiled, and took in some cases two applications of oil before it stopped being absorbed. Wiping off the excess oil here is what we have:



They are coming inside and I am hooking them up to our Sansui 2000A and Denon DCD 7.5L Alpha Processing CD player, it's going to be a nice night of music (on second thought and given two bashy smiles in one day, we're gonna let the glue set alllllll night and then try everything out tomorrow).

Now about those capacitors, go with 8uf and 25uf with 50v and up values? Any particular brand you would recommend? And thanks for all your advice and encouragement.