What brand would you choose first: Rubycon, Nichicon, or Panasonic?

[c.coyle]

It is Elna as I misspelled the option and I could not edit that out...oh well!

Just funnin' ya. That was too good to resist. Good capacitors are anatomically sound.

 

[c.coyle]

Did you folks hear about Eddy Currents? He had hysteresis.

 

[zaibatsu]

Something I dislike about Nichicon is that their measured (new) capacitance is often substantially lower than the rated value, this has been documented before. I always measure new parts before fitting and I've noticed it's worse in large sizes (>300uF). They are not the only guilty brand, I've seen the same from United Chemicon and Panasonic before. I've measured after some usage time and the capacitance doesn't seem to improve much, at least in my experience.

The solid polymer caps from the same brands seem to measure more accurately, both Panasonic OSCON and Nichicon FPCAP.

I still really like all three brands and use a mixture of them depending on application, United Chemicon have a new lineup called the GPD which is pretty cool: low-ESR 135deg electrolytics in voltages up to 100V with tight capacitance steps, which helps solve the aforementioned problem, eg. if you need a 680 you can buy a 750 and get a measured value around 680-690.

 

[ConradH]

That's why I buy 2700 uF to replace the 2200 uF in the Sansui receivers. They come in at 2500 uF so you get a little boost, but still very close to OEM. Does it matter? Probably not, as any circuit that depends on the value of an electrolytic cap is a bad circuit!

 

[zaibatsu]

Nichicon KZ and LKG-III family for a recent build:

@ConradH I've been doing the same as you. Do you have any thoughts on the importance of solid copper leads? Most of the non-audio types use steel leads with a thin copper plating rather than the solid copper used by the current and past "audio" caps. I know the "audio" part is a bit of a wank for most uses (decoupling/filtering), but I've wondered if the copper leads might have a non-marketing benefit. Interestingly a subset of the solid polymer types use them too, but not all (eg. SEPF and SEPC are solid copper, SEP is steel - not documented so I had to find out by buying a few). Interested in your thoughts.

 

[Oilmaster]

I've been doing the same as you. Do you have any thoughts on the importance of solid copper leads? Most of the non-audio types use steel leads with a thin copper plating rather than the solid copper used by the current and past "audio" caps. I know the "audio" part is a bit of a wank for most uses (decoupling/filtering), but I've wondered if the copper leads might have a non-marketing benefit. Interestingly a subset of the solid polymer types use them too, but not all (eg. SEPF and SEPC are solid copper, SEP is steel - not documented so I had to find out by buying a few). Interested in your thoughts.

Non-ferrous leads might be beneficial for small signal coupling capacitors, or capacitors located very nearby power transformers or mains wiring, as to avoid mains hum pick-up.
For diodes and resistors it is often very beneficial to conduct dissipated heat to the PCB track, but that aspect should not apply to your electrolytic caps

 

[Beau Geste]

Elna and Epcos are my favorite..I have had a bad experience with the Nichicon Muse KZ ..bought in England not in China..

 

[Hyperion]

I like Nichicon and Panasonic, (voted Nichicon). I tried Elna and didn't like them, maybe I didn't wait long enough for them to 'burn-in' but I'm definitely not waiting 50 or 500 hours for any capacitor.

 

[ConradH]

I've always been a skeptic (I should just stop right there!) about solid copper vs. steel leads. It just shouldn't matter, and if the manufacturing process requires spot welding, steel is better. That said, if you get any magnetic substance into the core of an inductor, distortion might go up. Now, any current loop is an inductor to at least some measurable degree, but I find it hard to believe it matters in normal circuits, save for some very unusual circumstances.

50 to 500 hours should be more than enough time for any capacitor to choose an outfit and put on makeup.

 

[sonci]

I like them all but have had very good measurements from United Chemicon .

I don't know in audio circuits, but all the UCh in my motherboards are bulged or destroyed.

 

[zaibatsu]

Appreciate the thoughts!
It would be interesting to see the measurements for an entire amp built with solid copper leaded caps vs. steel if you could get identical parts in both configurations but I don't think you can. Good to know it probably doesn't matter that much though.

I like Nichicon and Panasonic, (voted Nichicon). I tried Elna and didn't like them, maybe I didn't wait long enough for them to 'burn-in' but I'm definitely not waiting 50 or 500 hours for any capacitor.

I had the same experience as you, Elna (Silmic II) do come good eventually but they make things sound muffled and sluggish for ages. I'm not sure which "parameter" causes this, Conrad might. I found Nichicon/Panasonic (and UCC too) settled into their final sound much faster. I stopped using Elna since I felt there was no benefit over anything else for the wait.

 

[Oldsansui441]

I had the same experience as you, Elna (Silmic II) do come good eventually but they make things sound muffled and sluggish for ages. I'm not sure which "parameter" causes this, Conrad might. I found Nichicon/Panasonic (and UCC too) settled into their final sound much faster. I stopped using Elna since I felt there was no benefit over anything else for the wait.

Very interesting zaibatsu, l normally use Nichicon KZ's (first choice) or FG's if l choose to use audio caps and have had great results with these, l have only used Elna Silmic 2's in one recap and that was in an Akai AM-2650 and it sounded terrific afterwards, sounded very clear straight up.

 

[zaibatsu]

Very interesting zaibatsu, l normally use Nichicon KZ's (first choice) or FG's if l choose to use audio caps and have had great results with these, l have only used Elna Silmic 2's in one recap and that was in an Akai AM-2650 and it sounded terrific afterwards, sounded very clear straight up.

Probably varies depending on circuit and the condition of the old parts.
For what it's worth I recapped two of the same amp with all KZ and all Silmic II respectively (as much as possible anyway), both had all original parts beforehand (and the old parts measured fairly consistently between the two amps). Even then it's just my subjective experience.

Worth mentioning the new Elna caps all measured better than their claimed capacitance, so props to them for not cost cutting like everyone else.

 

[Oldsansui441]

For what it's worth I recapped two of the same amp with all KZ and all Silmic II respectively (as much as possible anyway), both had all original parts beforehand (and the old parts measured fairly consistently between the two amps). Even then it's just my subjective experience.

That is a great experiment and certainly creates an ideal and real world comparison between the two .

 

[ConradH]

I don't know in audio circuits, but all the UCh in my motherboards are bulged or destroyed.

I've replaced caps on my motherboard and my dad just brought one back to life with cap replacement. Switching supply filter duty is tough, plus we tend to keep computers on for huge numbers of hours. Some run warm, so now those surprisingly short life numbers in the data sheets start to be real world numbers. Supposedly the capacitor plague ended years ago, but I still see caps bulging, leaking and going bad. Fortunately, not often in audio gear. I didn't note the MB capacitor brands.

 

[jeromach]

Nichicon here mostly, for both normal and large filter caps. For the latter I used to use Panasonic, but since these are not made anymore I also tried Cornell Dubilier and these are good too.

But Panasonic for smaller caps is also fine, FM being my favorite, but FC and FR probably are just as good, I do not think there is substantial difference using any of these in audio related repairs or rebuilds.

Imho, I think the main thing to look out for is to NOT buy any cap over ebay in China or any other questionable source, stick to the big ones for these kind of parts, Mouser, Digi-Key, Farnell/Element14, RS components, Distrelec and then I think I have most of them.

 

[best-groove]

I voted Panasonic (Matsushita for accuracy) because the Technics uses Matsushita capacitors and for my recap on Technics I use these capacitors; but I use them because I can find all the capacity values I need.

I do not like to apply different brands on a pcb for lack of values, rather I change completely brand for the capacitors.

 

[mbz]

Thread is a bit old but...

Been a long time user of elna silmic II's in the audio path. Recently switched to Nichicon KZ and happy.
Also using the KZ's where they shouldn't be, like power supplies.

 

[Synchro-bias]

I use Elna SilmicII in CD players, Nichicon KW FG or KS power supply main caps, but the amplifer Panasonic FR, NIchicon PW, signal path FG, but in general, i try to go for long life

 

[ETRNLlearner]

I realize how old this thread is, but with capacitors old news is new news for folks new to the topic. And I am probably as new as they get. I own a DEQ2496. They are notorious for their flawed PSUs. I of course didn't know this when I purchased it. Luckily there's lots of enthusiast sites out there that have done most of the heavy lifting as far as fixes go. The PSUs in these are the switch mode style. The PSU also is known to run hot. So my 2 prong attack to the problem is to A) switch out the caps to a higher temperature and possibly higher uf rating and B) install a fan /cut a hole /install peltier pads for cooling. I don't mind going overboard with this project because if possible I'd like to never have to see this issue again. I even thought about installing a toroidal transformer, but that may be going to far. I just wanted to express how dedicated to the problem I am so I could get the relevant feedback for the best components for the fix. Most Behringer owners just recommend swapping the caps with better quality ones. This thread has great info in it however it's both mostly not specific enough for my purposes as well a 3 years old which might mean there's something newer and better out there.
So what is the best suited for PSUs, longest lasting, high temperature cap out there to date?
All feedback is welcome.