What brand would you choose first: Rubycon, Nichicon, or Panasonic?

[leesonic]

Nichicon. They seem to have a nice range of values (uF and voltage), and their "family tree" is easy to understand if you look at the datasheets.

Lee.

 

[Stepwise]

I realize how old this thread is, but with capacitors old news is new news for folks new to the topic. And I am probably as new as they get. I own a DEQ2496. They are notorious for their flawed PSUs. I of course didn't know this when I purchased it. Luckily there's lots of enthusiast sites out there that have done most of the heavy lifting as far as fixes go. The PSUs in these are the switch mode style. The PSU also is known to run hot. So my 2 prong attack to the problem is to A) switch out the caps to a higher temperature and possibly higher uf rating and B) install a fan /cut a hole /install peltier pads for cooling. I don't mind going overboard with this project because if possible I'd like to never have to see this issue again. I even thought about installing a toroidal transformer, but that may be going to far. I just wanted to express how dedicated to the problem I am so I could get the relevant feedback for the best components for the fix. Most Behringer owners just recommend swapping the caps with better quality ones. This thread has great info in it however it's both mostly not specific enough for my purposes as well a 3 years old which might mean there's something newer and better out there.
So what is the best suited for PSUs, longest lasting, high temperature cap out there to date?
All feedback is welcome.

If you check the application notes (from the supplier of the IC that is the heart of
the power supply) you will find something interesting. One specific capacitor
should NOT be low ESR and that contradicts those with simplistic rules that
say low ESR is always good. I fixed a (cheap auction bargain) DEQ2496 six years ago
and it is still good after continous use since then. Cheap because the power supply
was not healthy at all. It's the "control pin" capacitor 47 uF/25 V in series with 6,8 Ohm
I'm referring to. The rest was good ole Nichicon 105 C.

 

[ETRNLlearner]

If you check the application notes (from the supplier of the IC that is the heart of
the power supply) you will find something interesting. One specific capacitor
should NOT be low ESR and that contradicts those with simplistic rules that
say low ESR is always good. I fixed a (cheap auction bargain) DEQ2496 six years ago
and it is still good after continous use since then. Cheap because the power supply
was not healthy at all. It's the "control pin" capacitor 47 uF/25 V in series with 6,8 Ohm
I'm referring to. The rest was good ole Nichicon 105 C.

Stepwise when I wrote into this thread I really only expected eyerolls from all the EE savvy residents. I mean I "walk" into a audio forum for the first time and hijack an at least 3 year old thread for info relevant to my DEQ.

I would of never imagined finding another 2496 owner in here that could give me such specific info for my issue. I have to say trying to cold-turkey learn about capacitors, what they do, how they work, how their construction matters and how they are used outside of strictly being capacitors in a electrical design has been a head spinning experience. I thought I needed an EE to redesign the PSU for a while. I reached out to many of them on Reddit, to say they weren't interested would be an understatement. I'm kind of used to hard luck at this point. So sincerely I say to you, thank you, I'll take all the help I can get. Where may I ask did you run into the application notes for this? I had just found the info about "low resistance caps are better caps" too. You're timing couldn't have been better. I'm hoping there's only one 47 uF/25v cap in there now so I can find the correct one. If you had time to elaborate on your repair story I'd be happy to read it. Thanks again.

 

[Oldsansui441]

Hi, l would go with Nichicon UPW or UPM for that purpose. Use the 105 degree versions if power supply is known to get hot. Prob best to keep the uF ratings the same but up the voltage rating a little.

 

[ETRNLlearner]

Hi, l would go with Nichicon UPW or UPM for that purpose. Use the 105 degree versions if power supply is known to get hot. Prob best to keep the uF ratings the same but up the voltage rating a little.

Thank you, will keep this in mind when I purchase.

 

[Karl vd Berg]

Panasonic FR/FM (voted)
NCC/UCC KZN
Vishay 250 RMI
Nichicon PW

 

[Stepwise]

Stepwise when I wrote into this thread I really only expected eyerolls from all the EE savvy residents. I mean I "walk" into a audio forum for the first time and hijack an at least 3 year old thread for info relevant to my DEQ.

I would of never imagined finding another 2496 owner in here that could give me such specific info for my issue. I have to say trying to cold-turkey learn about capacitors, what they do, how they work, how their construction matters and how they are used outside of strictly being capacitors in a electrical design has been a head spinning experience. I thought I needed an EE to redesign the PSU for a while. I reached out to many of them on Reddit, to say they weren't interested would be an understatement. I'm kind of used to hard luck at this point. So sincerely I say to you, thank you, I'll take all the help I can get. Where may I ask did you run into the application notes for this? I had just found the info about "low resistance caps are better caps" too. You're timing couldn't have been better. I'm hoping there's only one 47 uF/25v cap in there now so I can find the correct one. If you had time to elaborate on your repair story I'd be happy to read it. Thanks again.

The IC type used, manufacturers data sheet:
https://www.power.com/sites/default/files/product-docs/top242.250.pdf

The application note:
https://ac-dc.power.com/system/files_force/product-docs/an32.pdf
Page 13, step 35 is the important one.

The schematic of the power supply, origin unknown.
https://kletong.blogspot.com/2013/02/power-suply-behringer-psu-dcx2496.html
C12 is the capacitor

Warning - Reading stuff like this can cause dizziness, insomnia or you fall asleep
after a few pages. After a while when symptoms disappear you have MUSIC again.

 

[Doug G.]

Illinois Capacitor, Sprague, Mallory, Vishay, Cornell Dubilier.

Doug

 

[Okke 70s]

Voted Panasonic, because I standardised on the FC series as the "basic all-round" cap. Just a solid workhorse that comes in a lot of sizes.

I also stock FM because they are great for older gear (like mid-70s). In a preamp for instance I would use only FM, sometimes even in the soundpath. But usualy I put Nichicon KA in the soundpath, or some non-electrolitic replacement for small values. Nichicon GU comes in for the mains in an amp sometimes. ES for the bipolairs.

Vishay is the only brand I can find for proper axial caps. They seem to do a fine job.

 

[gslikker]

It seems, the Nichicon "brand love" is very evident.
Now, for commonly available well-known low leakage caps, I can understand.
I can also understand we old techs hardly know anything about "high grade Chinese brands".

I think, the capacitors themselves do not care, what is printed on the outer sleeve.

 

[Watthour]

I can also understand we old techs hardly know anything about "high grade Chinese brands".

Agreed. The recycled Chemicon logo always confuses me:

 

[gslikker]

Agreed. The recycled Chemicon logo always confuses me:

I have some old ITT caps, which do carry a small Nippon Chemicon logo too. Probably Nippon Chemicon produced for ITT or ITT produced for Nippon Chemicon in Europe...
Btw: the Nippon Chemicon site company history mentions Samyoung.

 

[ETRNLlearner]

So what is the longest lived capacitor material for use in a power supply?

 

[ETRNLlearner]

One specific capacitor
should NOT be low ESR and that contradicts those with simplistic rules that
say low ESR is always good.

So I was doing some further researching before you replied a second time. I decided to do as much as I could on my own and in general using a site like mouser or what have you is fairly straight-forward except for 2 areas. Choosing the material and trying to choose a capacitor for a certain resistance. Basic capacitor knowledge states that capacitors have infinite resistance. I bounced it off my father (retired EE) and he had no idea what a low resistance capacitor was. So I'm not certain how to shop for one that is higher or lower in that regard.

Btw, thanks for the schematics. What I had downloaded had different revision numbers to them which confused things even more for me. What you posted was much more straight-forward. There's a guy who fixes a 2496 on YT and with that fix he had to replace the IC due to it cooking itself. I'm hoping to not be so unlucky since I turn my DEQ off when it starts to flip-out and boot-loop on me. Tried it twice, after 15 minutes it was completely unusable due to it's behavior so it has been sitting in the corner for months unplugged with me hoping it would discharge itself.

 

[Doug G.]

Buy American.

Doug

 

[w1jim]

Buy American.
Doug

Who do you recommend?

 

[Stepwise]

Basic capacitor knowledge states that capacitors have infinite resistance. I bounced it off my father (retired EE) and he had no idea what a low resistance capacitor was. So I'm not certain how to shop for one that is higher or lower in that regard.

ESR is Equivalent Series Resistance which means the "losses" in the capacitor at different frequencies.
https://www.avnet.com/wps/portal/ab...understanding-esr-in-electrolytic-capacitors/
Don't worry too much, data sheets will give the ESR values for different types and reasonably low
is better than not knowing the value at all.
Datasheets for different types looks like this:
https://www.nichicon.co.jp/english/products/alm_mini/index.html
Standard type, low impedance, 105 C and high reliabilty would be my own key-words but availabilty and
finding the correct value also matter.

... yes specifying a "low resistance" for something that has (should have) infinite resistance is
counter-intuitive.