libertycaps
Analogue "AAA" vinyl.
4K can get you what i have in my sig. line, more or less. Some good vintage stuff.
What can $4K get you if you are a newbie?
- Thread starter blackfly
- Start date
Having mulled this over a bit, my thinking would be the Clearaudio Performance SE or the Transrotor Dark Star, which seems to be available in the US at better prices than here. Both are pretty much set and forget, leaving the only tweaks in the cartridge department, and are, of course, excellent performers.
The Rega P3 and P7 are definitely good tables, but, given the wider range of manufacturers and generally lower prices in the US with the exception of Rega, I don't think they give you as much 'bang for buck' as they do in the UK and there are better.
The Rega P3 and P7 are definitely good tables, but, given the wider range of manufacturers and generally lower prices in the US with the exception of Rega, I don't think they give you as much 'bang for buck' as they do in the UK and there are better.
Tedrick
Infinity-phile
I would go with the VPI Classic I 'table with the JMW-10.5i 'arm. It is so good that it could be the last 'table you ever buy, would not be out of place in a system costing several 10's of thousands of dollars, and will do justice to some very expensive cartridges. The VPI Scout II with the new aluminum/stainless steel platter would also be an excellent choice.
There are numerous cartridge options; popular choices with VPI tables include just about any cartridge from Benz Micro or Dynavector, but especially the Benze Ace and the Dynavector DV-20X and 17D3 Karat; Shelter 501; many Ortofons, including the 2M series, Rondo series, and Cadenza series; Grado Reference-series moving iron carts; and Zyx cartridges. There's also the new VPI-spec Zephyr from Soundsmith.
There are numerous cartridge options; popular choices with VPI tables include just about any cartridge from Benz Micro or Dynavector, but especially the Benze Ace and the Dynavector DV-20X and 17D3 Karat; Shelter 501; many Ortofons, including the 2M series, Rondo series, and Cadenza series; Grado Reference-series moving iron carts; and Zyx cartridges. There's also the new VPI-spec Zephyr from Soundsmith.
I forgot to mention that one reason I went with the VPI was that, along with being sick of the upgrade path, I was sick of fiddling with and tweaking things in general, and the VPI just sort of is what it is. No suspension to adjust. You can't really switch out the arm, so you can't worry about it. It's sort of known what carts really work well with it...so that causes less thought to go into cart experimentation. It's plug and play, and very easy to set up. Its not a table for those who constantly want to worry about their setup and tweak things. Which is one thing I really love about it (but not as much as I love how it sounds). If I ever buy another turntable it will not be because I am in any way dissatisfied with the sound.
voltcontrol
Fizheuer Zieheuer
While I have bought them, I'd not look at used carts.
Their state is always unsure, so unless your relation to the seller is close, I'd get a new one...
And there are excellent deals on new ones out there anyway (upper end Audio Technicas, upper end Denons for example) and the good stuff is within price range for you anyway.
Keep in mind with the cart that it's compliance needs to be matched to the arm;
http://www.theanalogdept.com/cartridge___arm_matching.htm
It's easiest to look up or ask here which carts are proven good matches for your table/arm.
Oh and the Luxman C-05 does look like it has a very nice phono stage...
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guiller
Toscaninichus Australis
I second your suggestion.
Mister Pig
Pigamus Maximus
Lets Face It Very Few Of Us Have Experience With A Wide Range
of $4K table packages. There are quite few AK'ers that own some spendy current production tables, and have a good set of reasons for purchasing them. Others have some extremely nice, and sometimes very rare vintage or older tables, and once again have a good set of reasons for buying them. But very few of us have an encyclopedic knowledge of what is currently available, and direct experience with the best combos that can be put together.
The OP does not list his location, so this makes my suggestion a bit more difficult. But if I was in his position of looking to spend $4K once and get it right, one of the things I would consider doing is calling a handful of the great analog businesses out there. The first on my list would be Brooks of Berdan, and make sure to talk to Brooks himself. I would also make a call to Galen Carol, The Needle Doctor, and The Elusive Disc. Personally I would listen carefully to what Brooks and Galen have to say, and understand their perspective.
Unless you are in a large city, chances are you may not be able to get the table you want locally. Even then, not everything is available these days. So you may very well have to order from a seller thats not in your area, which very well could be one of these establishments on the above list. If you happen to live close enough to one of these stores to make a trip over there, then you are indeed fortunate.
There is a time and a place for using a dealer with a solid base of knowledge. In my book this appears to be one of them. Of course this is just the opinion of a barnyard animal. I like the warm sun, soft hay and a good meal, so what do I know about buying turntables? If you want another opinion go ask the cows. Don't talk to the chickens as fowl cannot be trusted to tell the truth.
Regards
Mister Pig
of $4K table packages. There are quite few AK'ers that own some spendy current production tables, and have a good set of reasons for purchasing them. Others have some extremely nice, and sometimes very rare vintage or older tables, and once again have a good set of reasons for buying them. But very few of us have an encyclopedic knowledge of what is currently available, and direct experience with the best combos that can be put together.
The OP does not list his location, so this makes my suggestion a bit more difficult. But if I was in his position of looking to spend $4K once and get it right, one of the things I would consider doing is calling a handful of the great analog businesses out there. The first on my list would be Brooks of Berdan, and make sure to talk to Brooks himself. I would also make a call to Galen Carol, The Needle Doctor, and The Elusive Disc. Personally I would listen carefully to what Brooks and Galen have to say, and understand their perspective.
Unless you are in a large city, chances are you may not be able to get the table you want locally. Even then, not everything is available these days. So you may very well have to order from a seller thats not in your area, which very well could be one of these establishments on the above list. If you happen to live close enough to one of these stores to make a trip over there, then you are indeed fortunate.
There is a time and a place for using a dealer with a solid base of knowledge. In my book this appears to be one of them. Of course this is just the opinion of a barnyard animal. I like the warm sun, soft hay and a good meal, so what do I know about buying turntables? If you want another opinion go ask the cows. Don't talk to the chickens as fowl cannot be trusted to tell the truth.
Regards
Mister Pig
I think it was Mister Pig who mentioned how different the presentations can be for various turntables; that is, at comparable price points and even with the same cartridge installed, a VPI, Linn, Rega, SOTA, Well Tempered, Michell, etc., will sound different from each other, and which presentation you prefer will depend on your personal tastes and system context. The furniture or rack system you mount it on can also greatly affect the sound you get with some designs, and I am unfamiliar with the Sonora rack system the OP uses.
I would recommend reading reviews of various choices to see if the descriptions of sonic performance and strengths match what you seek in sound reproduction. One interesting review is Paul Seydor's write-up of the current SOTA Sapphire. One nice thing about SOTA's design is that they are consistently lauded for easy, stable setup (once balanced for the weight of the arm, which the factory will do if you buy the arm through them, the suspension requires no further adjustment or maintenance) and that they sound the same regardless of what they're placed on (provided it can support the turntable's weight). Seydor's review includes the recommendation of the budget-priced Origin Live OL1 tonearm, which achieved great synergy ("Here was one of those wonderful synergisms that constitute a recurring joy for this reviewer. Something about the Karat in the OL1 on the Sapphire clicked into place such that everything sounded musically right and satisfying."). http://www.avguide.com/review/sota-sapphire-series-v-turntable-tas-210
I would recommend reading reviews of various choices to see if the descriptions of sonic performance and strengths match what you seek in sound reproduction. One interesting review is Paul Seydor's write-up of the current SOTA Sapphire. One nice thing about SOTA's design is that they are consistently lauded for easy, stable setup (once balanced for the weight of the arm, which the factory will do if you buy the arm through them, the suspension requires no further adjustment or maintenance) and that they sound the same regardless of what they're placed on (provided it can support the turntable's weight). Seydor's review includes the recommendation of the budget-priced Origin Live OL1 tonearm, which achieved great synergy ("Here was one of those wonderful synergisms that constitute a recurring joy for this reviewer. Something about the Karat in the OL1 on the Sapphire clicked into place such that everything sounded musically right and satisfying."). http://www.avguide.com/review/sota-sapphire-series-v-turntable-tas-210
trhee
ㅇtㅈyㅅr
My recommendation is to go out and listen to as many different turntables in your price range as possible and pick the table/cartridge combination that suits your preferences.
Personally, I like VPI's presentation of music which is why I own a Scout. However, if I had $4000 to spend right now and had to do it all over again, I'd be looking at various offerings from VPI, Clearaudio, Sota and Origin Live.
Personally, I like VPI's presentation of music which is why I own a Scout. However, if I had $4000 to spend right now and had to do it all over again, I'd be looking at various offerings from VPI, Clearaudio, Sota and Origin Live.
Mister Pig
Pigamus Maximus
Second This Recommendation
Turntables have as much variation, or personality if you want to call it, as does speakers.
If the OP would select a speaker based on others recommendations, then buying a table based on others recommendations make sense. If the OP wouldn't be comfortable doing that, then buying a table based on this course of action does not make sense.
As I said in an earlier post. Go buy a half dozen quality records. Go listen to as many turntables as you can, and then you can have experience for a frame of reference. Then you can ask thoughtful questions at the various vinyl forums, and get a bit feedback with a somewhat common frame of reference.
Who knows, analog may not even be for you. There is no guarantee until you go listen to it. At this moment all you know is that you THINK you like analog.
Regards
Mister Pig
Turntables have as much variation, or personality if you want to call it, as does speakers.
If the OP would select a speaker based on others recommendations, then buying a table based on others recommendations make sense. If the OP wouldn't be comfortable doing that, then buying a table based on this course of action does not make sense.
As I said in an earlier post. Go buy a half dozen quality records. Go listen to as many turntables as you can, and then you can have experience for a frame of reference. Then you can ask thoughtful questions at the various vinyl forums, and get a bit feedback with a somewhat common frame of reference.
Who knows, analog may not even be for you. There is no guarantee until you go listen to it. At this moment all you know is that you THINK you like analog.
Regards
Mister Pig
Frank Sol
Lunatic Member
+1
I think that is what a few of us have been trying to convey with the notion of 'start slowly' which means cheaper.
And... As I pointed out, it is good to have a backup TT (the cheaper 1st one) if he chooses to move up the ladder later.
I think that some well planned auditioning of high-end tables can clue one in as to whether or not they'll be into vinyl or not better than a slow upward crawl. There's such a difference between well done vinyl and entry level that I don't see any other way for somebody with a system like blackfly to get any idea of what the final sound will be. If he slots a budget turntable into that system I almost guarantee it will disappoint, because a moderate CD player into that system will sound fantastic and walk all over it. A budget record player will have every ounce of every flaw spotlighted. There's no hiding anything there.
trhee
ㅇtㅈyㅅr
Exactly correct.
A little off-topic but, John's statement holds true for CD playback systems as well. I think many of the people who dismiss CD's as non-musical or harsh are listening to a budget CD player or comparing a turntable that is of better quality versus the CD player in question. Either way, personally auditioning high end source components is the only way to find out whether that medium is right for you or not and which exact gear suits your preferences.
A little off-topic but, John's statement holds true for CD playback systems as well. I think many of the people who dismiss CD's as non-musical or harsh are listening to a budget CD player or comparing a turntable that is of better quality versus the CD player in question. Either way, personally auditioning high end source components is the only way to find out whether that medium is right for you or not and which exact gear suits your preferences.
guiller
Toscaninichus Australis
Agreed 100 %.
If the OP had a more budget system that hadn't been tweaked to the point of even debating the differences in cables, I would give different advice. I think that all components of a system should be of about the same quality or a spotlight is going to be put on the weak link. And in that system a budget turntable will stick out like sore thumb. If somebody was just starting out, and hadn't dwelled on every other aspect of their system, I can totally see the reason for a more gradual approach to stepping into vinyl. My recommendation isn't across the board, its just for this specific inquiry or others of a similar circumstance.
trhee
ㅇtㅈyㅅr
In case you skipped over a few of the entries.