MaxSeven
Word Skeptic
Seriously? Why not?
why do you need a machine to clean records?
- Thread starter Mid-Fi
- Start date
Seriously? Why not?
guiller
Toscaninichus Australis
MaxSeven
Word Skeptic
The OP screen name is soundtroll
Nonsense - the original question is legitimate and the very concept of trolling is completely subjective. It is the same if someone asked why an outboard phono stage is needed.
Brett a
~◦●○o0o○●◦~
I think you're missing two things:
1.) A vacuum stage in your cleaning process.
and
2.) A willingness to believe that what your doing is not the best way possible to clean LPs.
I wash used LPs in the sink just so I can play them. It does a good job. But until you hear the difference wet-vacuuming makes, you won't know how far short sink-cleaning falls. Over the years of hanging out in these forums, I've seen many people report with excitement that they had "discovered" the wonders of vacuum cleaning LPs.
EDIT TO ADD:
I wish my DIY LP vacuuming system were even one of these things. There's only one reason I use mine; it makes my LPs sound noticeably better. I wouldn't take all the time to set it up and break it down only to do about 6 lps an hour if it didn't.
Last edited:
The law of diminishing returns applies here. With your statemnt above,it seems to me that the cost of a decent machine is out of the question.Doing it by hand is fine. If at some point you feel the urge to try a different method,then go for it. I do own a VPI and like it for what it does.But it is a major expense.
thedelihaus
Nocturnal transmissions
The VPI rotates the record. You scrub manually with a brush.
The vacuum stage then sucks off the scrubbed-loose muck and mire floating on top of the record.
The most popular choice in this budget bracket is currently the VPI 16.5. It seems to lack much competition, unless yo want to go higher up in budget. Then the Keith Monks seems to be a much loved (but pricey) machine.
guiller
Toscaninichus Australis
There are also two models made by Clearaudio: I own the SmartMatrix (the cheapest one) and it does a superb job, being perhaps not so noisy as other RCMs (as reported in some reviews available on the net).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1J96yrwk1I0&feature=related
DougMac
Super Member
I have a couple of thoughts. I'm thrifty (read cheap) and the thought of spending $500 for a RCM seemed a bit much. Luckily I'm also relatively handy. I ordered the VPI wand assembly for ~$85, then took a thrift vacuum cleaner, a thrift ice cream churn, a junk sony TT and a 2x2 piece of plywood and made my own unit for less than $120.
I did notice a difference in cleaning with the RCM over hand cleaning. This was especially apparent with 78's, which tend to be much dirtier than LP's and 45's. There have been a number of records which I've picked up at thrifts and garage sales that were very dirty, but cleaned up great!
I did notice a difference in cleaning with the RCM over hand cleaning. This was especially apparent with 78's, which tend to be much dirtier than LP's and 45's. There have been a number of records which I've picked up at thrifts and garage sales that were very dirty, but cleaned up great!
Arkay
Lunatic Member
I do NOT own a dishwasher. At Casa Arkay, all dishes and eating utensils are washed the old-fashioned way, one at a time, by hand. They get just as clean, too --perhaps cleaner.
BUT I DO own a VPI 16.5 RCM, and it isn't all about owning another gadget. I'd gladly sell it and get the space back and use the money for better things, IF --AND ONLY IF-- I had any other way to get records half as clean and quiet-sounding, with nearly as much convenience. But in my experience, the RCM works better than anything else, for getting records really clean...and the difference is clearly audible. So the RCM stays right where it is.
As for an RCM doubling the cost of one's record system, it might even be worth it, and make sense, because very clean records sound so much better than dirty ones, adding a vacuum-type RCM is like upgrading one's entire system. Of course, the question remains whether the system is so inexpensive because it was bought as secondhand bargains, or is it really cheap quality? If the latter, then the money MIGHT be better spend on upgrades elsewhere in the system... but an RCM should rank pretty high up, for any serious vinyl-spinner.
For years, I hand-washed records in the sink. I still do, if they are very dirty, to prepare them for the RCM, so I won't get the RCM too dirty and thus transfer the dirt to other records. I even own a pair of those glass-carrying vacuum handle things, to protect the labels when I sink-wash records. But since getting the RCM, I"d never be satisfied to go back to hand-wash only record cleaning. No matter how you do it, it always seems to fall short of what a vacuum-type RCM can do.
Just take a record that is equally dirty on both sides, and clean one side one way, and the other side in the other way. Then compare. Repeat a few times, to balance out any differences between sides. Your ears will give you the answer you seek.
Got it, thanks. So the vacuuming part is the difference.
Rotoplooker
Well-Known Member
If soundtroll is new to records and just buying new records or used records in good shape, there is a very good chance he does not need a RCM. I went 25 years without one and never felt I was disadvantaged. My approach of careful handling, storage, cleaning with carbon fibre, discwasher, etc had served me well. And I can still play Lp's I bought in 1978 using only those methods that sound perfect.
Perhaps as one starts buying cheap/dirty records and even develops an ear for dirt/dust/damage/static, etc (this by his own admission, IIRC) he will also be pulled, kicking and screaming, into the seedy underworld of effective record cleaning machines like the rest of us.
Perhaps as one starts buying cheap/dirty records and even develops an ear for dirt/dust/damage/static, etc (this by his own admission, IIRC) he will also be pulled, kicking and screaming, into the seedy underworld of effective record cleaning machines like the rest of us.
sxty8goats
Super Member
I was thinking of starting a new thread with this question but I suppose it fits this thread just fine...
Apart from convenience and or noise level, does one vacuum based RCM work better than another or are they all about the same? Does a Nitty Gritty clean as well as a VPI?
I own a SpinClean. I've seen a KAB "RCM" which is basically a Nitty Gritty top with a passive tank. You hook your own home/carpet vac to it and spin the record by hand to vacuum clean. With the idea that I may eventually build a RCM, this seems like a good way to get started. KAB's RCM would possibly make a good starting point for a larger system especially combined with the SC, Albums could be run through the SC and finished with the KAB.
Apart from convenience and or noise level, does one vacuum based RCM work better than another or are they all about the same? Does a Nitty Gritty clean as well as a VPI?
I own a SpinClean. I've seen a KAB "RCM" which is basically a Nitty Gritty top with a passive tank. You hook your own home/carpet vac to it and spin the record by hand to vacuum clean. With the idea that I may eventually build a RCM, this seems like a good way to get started. KAB's RCM would possibly make a good starting point for a larger system especially combined with the SC, Albums could be run through the SC and finished with the KAB.
I've got a SC as well and am considering the KAB unit as a finishing step.
sxty8goats
Super Member
Truth be told, you may have mentioned that here in a previous post. I started looking at it a few days back after reading someones post.
If it cleans as well as any other, I'll likely pull the trigger once I get my Sl1200mk2 rebuild done.
Truth be told, you may have mentioned that here in a previous post. I started looking at it a few days back after reading someones post.
If it cleans as well as any other, I'll likely pull the trigger once I get my Sl1200mk2 rebuild done.
I have no experience with any RCM or system other than the Spin Clean. I have to think the KAB vacuums as well as others, though, and I already have a vacuum.
I do like the fact that the Spin Clean bathes the record vertically as it rotates/scrubs, so you're not rubbing the same dirt into the record while cleaning.
You've missed the sole reason I (and many others I suspect) shelled out the money for an RCM: It cleans records more effectively than any other method. My Nitty Gritty was probably the best audio-related purchase I've ever made. The 'impressive' bit is funny, as nobody I know even knows what it is, or cares.
It's always fun to see people change their minds on this after they actually get one.
Last edited:
I don't own my RCM for any of these reasons. I didn't even really want one but was offered one in trade. I don't think the Nitty Gritty is impressive looking (it looks kinda cheap). I keep it, and love it, because nothing else does a better job than a vacuum system. For it to be something that improves efficiency, the other methods would have to work as well. They don't. It does something that you can't do as well without it.