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Why is everyone so against electrolytic caps in crossovers?

SoundOfSound said:
Well I cannot speak for everybody else but I have been doing some experimenting with $2/3 dollar film capacitors and different tweeters. I would have to say that I can hear some differences based on the different combinations used. The differences in certain caps and combinations are interesting to play with. The main thing that I hear is much cleaner tone, film caps get rid of the hash that I hear with the electrolytic caps.

The one cap that I spent a bit more money on that really surprised me was the Audyn Plus cap. So I do believe that you get what you pay for with caps at least up to a certain point.

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OUCH! :yikes: I just looked up the price and they're a little outside of my comfort zone. :D However, I wouldn't be opposed to trying some, as in two or four, in a set of speakers I wanted to keep for a very long time. :scratch2:
 
RickeyM said:
I'm led to believe the HD7's were no more than 5yrs old. Much less than the supposed 10-20yr life span of 'lytic's and yes, the caps were original Boston Acoustics branded electrolytic caps.

I had this Ford Taurus GL once. Nice car, it's what I could afford at the time. Come time to replace the tires, I did my research and selected a set of tires that had better performance in the rain than the original equipment tires. To me, this was important. Should I have gotten exact replacements for the original tires because because, gee, they were "good enough" to be original equipment?
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The car was not designed primarily for rain use, and those that used it as such might need to make provisions. The car and its tires were made for the general public. Me being in Arizona where it rarely rains might have hated the tires you chose.:yes:
 
RickeyM said:
I'm led to believe the HD7's were no more than 5yrs old. Much less than the supposed 10-20yr life span of 'lytic's and yes, the caps were original Boston Acoustics branded electrolytic caps.

I had this Ford Taurus GL once. Nice car, it's what I could afford at the time. Come time to replace the tires, I did my research and selected a set of tires that had better performance in the rain than the original equipment tires. To me, this was important. Should I have gotten exact replacements for the original tires because because, gee, they were "good enough" to be original equipment?
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So they were pretty new, interesting. Thanks!
 
It may be coincidence, but my best sounding speakers have mylar/poly caps iincorporated with electrolytics for any shunts.
 
89grand said:
The car was not designed primarily for rain use, and those that used it as such might need to make provisions. The car and its tires were made for the general public. Me being in Arizona where it rarely rains might have hated the tires you chose.:yes:
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The point is, I wanted to improve a certain aspect of the car's performance and that's what I achieved.
Today 01:00 AM
 
89grand said:
I can believe that, but it still goes back to audio equipment/music reproduction. I just think it's odd that no one messes with any other electrical equipment to improve it.

I'm not an electrical engineer, but rather a process engineer for a circuit board contract manufacturer, so I can't speak too much for the design, but I can guarantee that most products use the cheapest component that "work" as intended, and that's what matters most. Designers only use 1%, and sometimes .5 and .1% resistors when they have to, and better caps when they have to. That doesn't mean their product would work better if all resistors used were .1%.
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1% resistors are actually tight tolerance. It used to be 5%, 10%, 20% resistors were common place in the electronics industry. It just depends on what the circuit was designed to do.
 
89grand said:
I can believe that, but it still goes back to audio equipment/music reproduction. I just think it's odd that no one messes with any other electrical equipment to improve it.
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Sure there are. There are a lot of computer guys that will mod their motherboards, power supplies, processors, etc. I've flashed a few Cendyne DVD burners to turn them into a BenQ brand DVD burner. People mod their guitar effects pedals, guitars, amps. Eddie Van Halen was even a prolific guitar modder back in the day. Some guys, like me, have even modded a few bicycles just for kicks. It's all over the place.

I bet if we were on a golf club forum there would be guys modding their clubs. We're a nation of people who like to muck with stuff. :D
 
SoundOfSound said:
1% resistors are actually tight tolerance. It used to be 5%, 10%, 20% resistors were common place in the electronics industry. It just depends on what the circuit was designed to do.
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It may also depend on what was available at the time. For example, if a 1% 15 watt resistor was available 30 years ago, how much would it cost compared to a 15 watt resistor with 10% tolerance. With the exception of the military, pretty much every organization has to take cost into consideration. I'd bet good money a 1% resistor is more affordable today in the grand scheme of things.

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Dr. Morbius said:
Sure there are. There are a lot of computer guys that will mod their motherboards, power supplies, processors, etc. I've flashed a few Cendyne DVD burners to turn them into a BenQ brand DVD burner. People mod their guitar effects pedals, guitars, amps. Eddie Van Halen was even a prolific guitar modder back in the day. Some guys, like me, have even modded a few bicycles just for kicks. It's all over the place.

I bet if we were on a golf club forum there would be guys modding their clubs. We're a nation of people who like to muck with stuff. :D
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Just like Henry Ford made it. :D

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Dr. Morbius said:
Sure there are. There are a lot of computer guys that will mod their motherboards, power supplies, processors, etc. I've flashed a few Cendyne DVD burners to turn them into a BenQ brand DVD burner. People mod their guitar effects pedals, guitars, amps. Eddie Van Halen was even a prolific guitar modder back in the day. Some guys, like me, have even modded a few bicycles just for kicks. It's all over the place.

I bet if we were on a golf club forum there would be guys modding their clubs. We're a nation of people who like to muck with stuff. :D
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Yeah, like I said earlier, modding is a natural human trait, and there is nothing really wrong with that, but there isn't with people that accept an original design as sound either.:thmbsp:
 
89grand said:
Yeah, like I said earlier, modding is a natural human trait, and there is nothing really wrong with that, but there isn't with people that accept an original design as sound either.:thmbsp:
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I absolutely agree. I have no argument there. In fact it's probably healthier mentally as I'm sure most tweakers have a touch of OCD somewhere in their system. I'm speaking from experience, of course. :banana:
 
Dr. Morbius said:
It may also depend on what was available at the time. For example, if a 1% 15 watt resistor was available 30 years ago, how much would it cost compared to a 15 watt resistor with 10% tolerance. With the exception of the military, pretty much every organization has to take cost into consideration. I'd bet good money a 1% resistor is more affordable today in the grand scheme of things.

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I think it's pretty funny when someone mods in tighter tolerance resistors to a crossover, or whatever, without even measuring the existing values! As if a 1% resistor that measured 1006 Ohms is somehow better than a 5% resistor that measures 1003 Ohms. (Obviously using a target of 1K for example.)

I've always been an ardent supporter of DIY and repair, as much as any commercial designer I know of. ("Speakers By Design", stuffing methods, Pitts, 1259, etc.) But, I just don't get parts swappers and modkateers. It all seems totally silly to me.

-k
 
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Meant to post this earlier but forgot. Another AK'er, in another thread, had made a comment regarding the actual definition of electrolytics, and I thought it would be better for me to quote him (anonymously, I hope) instead of trying to explain it or ask the question myself.

** "Not sure if there is a definition of an electrolytic but years ago any cap that was below 1mfd was simply called a capacitor and anything above it was an electrocytic capacitor. Anything in a can that stood upright was an electrolytic and anything that was polarized was an electrolytic. So anything that is an NP is also an electrolytic but a nonpolarized version of a polarized cap. From the construction of your caps [*EDIT - "Your" is referring to another poster in the thread i'm quoting *], I'd surmise they were oil in foil as usually oil in foil was in a metal cannister or paper and wax wrapped to prevent leakage." **

Any thoughts on this, because I've had a few other people say tell me the same thing.
 
sKiZo said:
Main purpose of a bypass cap is to eliminate the ac component (ripple current) that can tag along with the signal and degrade purity ...

... or so they say ... you know ... them ... the ones that use em.

I figger it couldna hertz ... so why not? Poly caps are dirt cheap nowadays.
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I heartz that the signal IS AC. What am I missing here?
 
I'm not against electrolytic caps in crossovers. I simply will never use crossovers at all in my system as it's active.

The wifes system and systems for the kids have crossovers built in as it's much easier to use and requires only one amplifier.
 
SoundOfSound said:
Well I cannot speak for everybody else but I have been doing some experimenting with $2/3 dollar film capacitors and different tweeters. I would have to say that I can hear some differences based on the different combinations used. The differences in certain caps and combinations are interesting to play with. The main thing that I hear is much cleaner tone, film caps get rid of the hash that I hear with the electrolytic caps.
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Just curious, are you comparing these new film caps with new, good quality NP electrolytics such as the Mundorfs mentioned in this thread?
 
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