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Why Recap Speakers and When?

lorne said:
:beer: Stereo is only TWO speakers. Why recap 4? Save the clams and spend a day and a night in a five star hotel with a companion of your choice and room service!:banana: :tresbon: :thmbsp: :smoke: :D

what he said..... but for some reason I don't think you're gonna save enuff clams to get that deep in to the action. :sigh: But it sure sounds good.

This thread has already got my interest piqued by two re-cap jobs that I can't wait to get in to. HPM-100s and EPI 100s . And all this time I thought it was me. Good stuff.

Rebel
 
I'll recap two of the 4311's and compare the results to the remaining two. But I've put it off until July for various reasons.

Rick
 
I just recapped the eletrolytic capacitors in both my Bose series IV equalizers, man what a big difference, very crisp highs and deeper bass. :thmbsp: :music:
 
I just ordered some caps for my Polk 5Bs. The schematics call for 34uf and 12uf caps. I ordered the dayton non polarized caps. I belive they are electrolytics, as the originals are. They are labled high quality and really cheap. Are these o.k. or should I have sprung for the solens, at least for the 12uf tweeter. As long as I bring my crossovers to their original specs that's fine for me.
Hal
 
I got electrolytics for my CW D-7 and the SP-2500 yesterday. I did not got for the $12 each stuff, but I got the ones from Digikey. The values were easy to match but I had to go up in voltage as the lower voltage was not stocked. I plan to recap one at a time and compare it to the other side. I'll report.
 
What Is Reapping [speakers]? — answer

Trance88 wrote:
What is recapping???? Is the cap that center "button" thing in the middle of the speaker?
Some people might assume that you are trolling, but I read your post over and elected to answer you as best as I can:

Recapping refers to the removal and replacement of capacitors in an electric circuit, such as audio employs in virtually all of its commensurate components. And the term ‘recapping’ usually refers to changing-out of the electrolytic type capacitors. The other breed, which is commonly referred to as the ‘film capacitor’ type, may be subject as well. But it is the electrolytic type that receives most of the attention for very good reason

Electrolytic types are especially subject to degradation as a consequence three factors: time, temperature and engineering/production parameters. Due to physical constraints, the latter is nearly fixed. But the other two factors can be variable to a great degree. This allows for the fact that unit 'A' of the same model may see an operational life that is much longer than 'B'. Unit ‘B’ may have been operating in an environment that was simply more stressful on all the components, and electrolytic caps are often at the greatest risk in terms of longevity.

All electrolytic types have a more limited capacity for optimumal performance than do other constructions. But, they have very definite advantages, such as price and relative compactness of size.

In speakers, the much preferred type of electrolytic cap has been the non-polar type — alternately called a bi-polar capacitor. Cheaper speakers, or speakers of a certain vintage contain such capacitors. Such capacitors operate in an AC environment. This is a hazardous condition for electroytic capacitors. The electroytic paste which makes up the electrolyte in the cap is made effective by a polarized DC current. Without this environment, the optimal performance of capacitors in crossover circuits of speakers have a forshortened life expectancy. They may exhibit some effectiveness way past their useful, optimal life. And so old speakers may belt out the sound; nevertheless many users report huge benefits after substituting new caps for old. Replacing fairly decent film caps with new ones may not reveal anything like the same magnitude of change.

Many modern, quality speakers, as well as more and more pedestrian production are supplied with film type capacitors of one type or another. By definition, film type capacitors are non-polar. The health and integrity of this kind of capacitor does not require a polarized current. You can pass a sign wave through it for a very long period and it will be happy. Various advantages are available to crossover circuits that use this kind of cap. These are better explained by the more learned members who have mastered the trades. But I will say here that generaly speaking, film caps are the better substitutes for electrolytic capacitors should you find any in your work.

All that been said, it is fair to caution you that it is not unusual to find that there is not enough room on older crossover boards to mount film capacitors. They are invariabley larger than their electrolytic counterparts of the same value. Thus it is sometimes necessary to make modifications to the cross-over module in order to change cap types.

Should you attempt such a substitution, it is very important to learn and practise soldering techniques as well as the basics of consrtruction. Virtually anyone can learn how to do this if interest and effort is applied.

WARNING: Experience, effort and success in this area can lead to a serious addiction requiring professional counselling and extended rehabilitation!
 
Ohhhhhhh!!!!! It's the capacitors. Thank you for answering my question. I had no clue what everyone meant when they were recapping. I thought it had to do something with the actual speaker.
 
Just recapped my 17 year old Polk Monitor 5B speakers. I used parts express "high quality NP" electrolytics capacitors, the cheap stuff. I also put in the dayton high quality 10W resistors. The sound seems smoother and more detailed. I measured all the old stuff and it all spec'd out. My question is if the old components checked out can there still be improvement in sound or am I just hearing things. Also is 17 years old for elec. caps?
 
hal2000 said:
Just recapped my 17 year old Polk Monitor 5B speakers. I used parts express "high quality NP" electrolytics capacitors, the cheap stuff. I also put in the dayton high quality 10W resistors. The sound seems smoother and more detailed. I measured all the old stuff and it all spec'd out. My question is if the old components checked out can there still be improvement in sound or am I just hearing things. Also is 17 years old for elec. caps?

Depends on what you measured when you say they "Spec'd out". Normally what is bad is ESR (Equivalent Series Resistance). That takes a special and pretty expensive meter to measure.

Bob Crites
 
about recapping speakers.I just recapped two pairs of vintage speakers incl. klh5's with good film caps. I used hovlands,and max caps in the klh and clarity and max caps in the other.The gain is tremendous.The klh was done in two stages. initially the original electrolytics in the mid and woofer were tested in spec. so just the hovlands were put in the tweeter. huge gain. then max caps were put in the mids and woofer. another large gain.I played these speakers in a shop against $6,500 cdn spendor s9's and stand behind the klh5's .For those unfamiliar these[1972] were designed by Kloss to compete directly with the more famous ar3a. many consider them better.
The second pair [burhoe blues] had cheap film caps already.These had improved the ancient electrolytics BUT the move to GOOD film made an enormous difference!! This is a MUST DO for those who would like to hear the best out of their quality vintage speakers!
As to cost: the max caps are available from a toronto design outfit [maxspeakers.com] at a cost e.g. of $7 for 10uf.They make all values. These caps are sensational value for money. i told the guy to submit them to the Humble Hifi cap comparison site but he does most of his business in the speaker industry and seemed noncommittal for some reason. He also designs exceptional drivers.
Those people who still insist that caps cannot make that big a difference unless they deteriorate should reconsider..The matter is indisputable, unarguable, unassailable and fully determined[did i say i felt strongly about it?]
RECAP and Fast. hope this helps fence sitters.
 
lorne said:
I've recapped speakers that have ranged from 15 to 35 years old using either polypropylene, Mylar or a mixture of both. In each case the difference was an astonishing improvement.

I would change out X-over electrolytics that are 10 to 15 years old. I could be blowing hot air, but this opinion is based on reports I have read about the optimum life of the electrolytic paste, as well as the effectiveness I have witnessed. Long dormant periods may be more harmful than than regularly applied current. Of course, if the owner is satisfied with something less than what the optimum may be allowing in performance, the speakers should play on for decades, as we have all experienced.

If you have a pair of older speakers you care about, I'd encourage you to recap now as opposed to waiting. Mylar caps are a good way to start — not too expensive, readily available and highly effective. Polypropes can scare you off due to their price and keep you waiting when you could be reaping the sonic benefits. Bennic brand (China) is a decent, affordable poly that has made a vast improvement in my latest project.

Some of these cap change outs may SEEM expensive, but when I go to the sound rooms and hear the shiny new products costing hundreds or thousands, I come away confirmed that fresh capacitors can make a pair of vintage speakers a brilliant opportunity. With tired caps they are just another old speaker — even really good ones!
I agree on the Bennic Poly Caps.

I actually prefer them to Solens.

Every speaker I have ever put Solens in was a disappointment, and I consider them a bright sounding capacitor.

They totally ruined my Yamaha NS 200 M's, and made a Klipsch Heresy brighter too.

Upon someones advice, I simply ordered some Bennic Poly's from Madisound, slapped em in, and both speakers settled right down.
 
I bet my 26 year old Realistic MC-1200's could use a recap! Everything's original on them. If I do decide to repace the capacitors I should find ones that are rated the same as the old ones?
 
I recapped my Polk SDA 1C's with the Solen PB caps along with Mills resistors over the weekend and am very pleased with the results. Maybe my ears aren't good enough to hear the difference between the Solens, Bennics, etc, but there was a major difference in the sound, staging, depth, etc...all the way around. I've used the Dayton Polys from Parts Express in other speakers with good results as well. I just wasn't ready to spend the extra $$$ on the Sonicaps, etc for my speakers. I know they are better by far but for cost effectiveness, I am happy.

Definitely an easy upgrade with phenomenal results to be had.
 
Thanks for the information lorne. As someone who know's very little regarding this type of electronics your post was very helpful. Any suggestions on the best way to start learning and working on receivers and speakers or resources for reading material?
 
I just got my 1st speaker re-cap done, a pair of EPI M100's that had been sounding deathly dull for awhile. In addition to the re-cap they were re-wired with equal-length runs of good quality solid-core.

I've had a number of mods done to different components in the past year or so and felt that they were all worthwhile and some were in fact quite dramatic. Nothing I've had done to the present came even close to the improvements in the EPI's. Wow! Those speakers have never sounded like they do now at any time in their existence. The bass is huge and nicely defined, mid-range is sweet and the treble is delicate and nicely defined.

My EPI M50's are getting the same treatment now and then I'll be working my way through the collection. I'm sold, to put it lightly....
 
Here's a decent film/foil speaker cap fairly cheap

I just bought 8 of these from West Florida Components, from whom I have bought a lot of caps for speakers. They have a pretty good range of metalized, and NP electrolytic and a few Film/foil. These are 5uf/50V Cornell WMF series caps. They're physically large because of the foil construction. According to the datasheet they are designed to be non-inductive, which takes a more complex design and manufacturing process. 5uf is the largest size made in 50V, the lowest voltage. Technically, these should outperform ordinary metalzed caps. I measured a few of them and they're all less than 2% off value, much better than the 10% spec. The dielectric is polyester and the foil is probably alu. I buy good caps for future speaker repairs in quantity when they're available. I'll be on the lookout for more of these C-D WMF caps, as they seem very well made.

I don't know if this link will work, but here's the spec sheet:

http://www.cde.com/catalogs/WMF.pdf
 

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Hi and thanks to all. So very informative and enlightening!!!! I'm about to recap my 4 each Sansui SP-2000s and really appreciate all your advice. SUPER THANKS TO ALL AKers!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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