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Why "thinner sound" from Yamaha is better than "bigger warm sound" from other brands

ConradH said:
My take is that "Natural Sound" is a marketing thing and pretty much meaningless.
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Maybe in this case there's a little more value to it?
When phrases hang around for a year or two (and then change to something new) they can be written off as marketing terms, but when a phrase like this has been concrete for ~40 years and truly represented within many of the products made, I think it's more of a company philosophy.

A core philosophy like this keeps the product true to its original intent as the company progresses through generations and staff, and not many companies manage to do this. A golden example I can think of is Mazda with their Miata/MX-5 and "jinba ittai" philosophy, describing a driver's connection with the car ("horse and rider as one"). It has been one of the only moderately priced cars to maintain double-wishbone suspension all round + prioritise mechanical handling and weight optimisation, through generations of cost cutting from other manufacturers in those core areas.

I'm not saying Yamaha is perfect or anything, but I do feel that most of their audio products at least strive for the same goal, compared to other brands where different products / eras have very different sonic signatures. I appreciate that many do enjoy the latter, but I was drawn to the goal of transparency that Yamaha seems to have across the board.

I agree with you 100% on the desire for clean/flat response and the fact that Yamaha did an excellent job of this (especially in the earlier years as you said), I just feel the "Natural Sound" philosophy may have helped.
 
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zaibatsu said:
Maybe in this case there's a little more value to it?
When phrases hang around for a year or two (and then change to something new) they can be written off as marketing terms, but when a phrase like this has been concrete for ~40 years and truly represented within many of the products made, I think it's more of a company philosophy.

A core philosophy like this keeps the product true to its original intent as the company progresses through generations and staff, and not many companies manage to do this. A golden example I can think of is Mazda with their Miata/MX-5 and "jinba ittai" philosophy, describing a driver's connection with the car ("horse and rider as one"). It has been one of the only moderately priced cars to maintain double-wishbone suspension all round + prioritise mechanical handling and weight optimisation, through generations of cost cutting from other manufacturers in those core areas.

I'm not saying Yamaha is perfect or anything, but I do feel that most of their audio products at least strive for the same goal, compared to other brands where different products / eras have very different sonic signatures. I appreciate that many do enjoy the latter, but I was drawn to the goal of transparency that Yamaha seems to have across the board.

I agree with you 100% on the desire for clean/flat response and the fact that Yamaha did an excellent job of this (especially in the earlier years as you said), I just feel the "Natural Sound" philosophy may have helped.
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Two thumbs up!

Cheers,
John
 
zaibatsu said:
When phrases hang around for a year or two (and then change to something new) they can be written off as marketing terms, but when a phrase like this has been concrete for ~40 years and truly represented within many of the products made, I think it's more of a company philosophy.
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I thought it was silk screened on metal not been in concrete for 40 years.
 
Unnatural - not existing naturally; artificial.
In audio, unnatural effects are anything introduced between original recording and final playback that causes the sound to deviate from the original live recording.
 
I've always had Yamaha. The Yamaha sound I've always liked. I always thought he was better than other brands IMHO.
Two years ago I let myself be influenced by an article of What's Hifi about the sound of the front channels of my RX A 3040. Well, I bought a first and a 2 mx MX 1000 for the front channels..No significant change only with in the MX 1000 sound sounded stronger and with a wider area (260 watts per channel vs 150 watts).Then I had the opportunity to purchase one Sherwood AM 7040 mosfet power amplifier the last year . I was very curious to hear the sound of the mosfet. The only yamaha mosfets that I know are the very old B2 vFet, the impossible to get MX 10000 and the not imported in Italy ( my country) MX 2000 . After replaced some polyester with polypropilene cap , the Sherwood sound very vey nice warm and thinner .Is it a miracle? I do not know as I do not know the B2', MX1000 and MX 2000 sound but I know , IMHO, at my ears, the Sherwood sound much and vastly better than Yamaha MX 1000 for the simple reason that the mosfet sounds better the transistor.
This impression was confirmed hearing the Perreaux PFM 3250 mos power amplifier.
Sounds better Sherwood or Perreaux? The first, IMHO.
I apologize for my broken English ciao to everybody :-)
 
Regarding the whole Natural Sound thing, I recently bought a Yamaha PX-3 and it's the first item of Yamaha gear I've ever owned that doesn't say "Natural Sound" on it. Does this mean I'm not going to like it?!
 
zaibatsu said:
I'm not saying Yamaha is perfect or anything, but I do feel that most of their audio products at least strive for the same goal, compared to other brands where different products / eras have very different sonic signatures.
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zaibatsu said:
When phrases hang around for a year or two (and then change to something new) they can be written off as marketing terms, but when a phrase like this has been concrete for ~40 years and truly represented within many of the products made, I think it's more of a company philosophy.
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IMO, these are two VERY valid points. They have stuck to their corporate philosophy and products that represent that. So many of the "big boys" in the mass-market (not the uber high-end stuff) but brands like Pioneer, Sansui, Fisher, Kenwood, Sony, Sherwood, Onkyo succumbed horribly to the BPC era, AVR surge and "sold their soul" to the bean counters and marketing guys, just resting on their name. Even during those "dark days", Yamaha somehow managed to hang on to most of their integrity. in terms of build quality and performance.

Every manufacture has to meet price points and offer lower and higher tier models to stay in business, but (again, IMO only) Yamaha survived with less "damage" to the brand name than a lot of the others by retaining a certain level of "integrity". I agree that Yamaha is not "perfect", but they have at least been "consistent".
 
Does Yamaha market in Japan with "Natural Sound" or something that translates to "sound of tree falling in Zen forest when no one hears"? And I wonder if Japanese customers post on forums asking what that sound is and whether they will like that sound or not?
 
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"Japanese customers"

No, they prefer to listen to the sound of 1 hand clapping, provided their systems are resolving enough.
 
Beobloke said:
Regarding the whole Natural Sound thing, I recently bought a Yamaha PX-3 and it's the first item of Yamaha gear I've ever owned that doesn't say "Natural Sound" on it. Does this mean I'm not going to like it?!
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Most likely you won't like it. To save yourself the pain of this disappointment you should probably sent it to me. :) I will carry that pain for you. Because I'm a nice guy.

Cheers,
James
 
My 0.02€ worth of wisdom. The neutral and clean sound of Yamaha gear is what always has and always will draw me to rely on their amps in my systems. I want the/any sound coloration to come from the source and not from the pipeline.

Cheers,
James
 
I've been using NS-1000M's driven by a PC2602 poweramp for years now, and it doesn't sound thin to me at all. I'd describe it as pretty tight and controlled, without bloated bass. Which might be perceived as "thin" if one is used to listen with the loudness control on. I've done that myself, back in the days...

But it doesn't say "Natural Sound" anywhere on the equipment, so :dunno:
 
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I see "Natural Sound" as more of a philosophy than a marketing slogan. One thing I can say from my perspective as one who owns different generations of Yamaha integrated amps, is that they are consistent in their sound signature; neutral. I also find sound quality to be highly dependent on the original recording or source.

All just my opinion of course.:D
 
SuperLead100 said:
I see "Natural Sound" as more of a philosophy than a marketing slogan. One thing I can say from my perspective as one who owns different generations of Yamaha integrated amps, is that they are consistent in their sound signature; neutral. I also find sound quality to be highly dependent on the original recording or source.

All just my opinion of course.:D
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I have to concur with your opinion!!! Having "Natural Sound" printed on the faceplate did not make them any "different sounding" than any other Yamaha amp/receiver, but it has been a corporate philosophy to maintain a neutral sonic signature over the decades.

Some other manufacturers, like Marantz and Sansui are known for their "warm" character, but that is their "house/brand" sonic signature. Yamaha has always been "neutral", so some will consider it "dark" or "clinical" I also own Krell and Aragon amps that have zero "sonic signature" in that they also are tuned to "neutral".

I also agree that it all starts with the source--regardless of the gear/speakers in the system--there are good recordings and bad recordings, and the more "neutral" the system is, the more you will hear--for better or worse.
 
I have a CR-800 and NS-690s. It seems to me like they designed receiver / speakers as a "system". I'm able to fine tune using the controls on the speakers. I have less control over tuning the tonality when I use the Cr-800 with other speakers.

Having said that, I actually prefer my SX-838 with the NS-690s.
 
I had heard that at some time, McIntosh dealers carried Yamaha as their budget entry level line. Anyone verify that?
 
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