reggaenaut
Addicted Member
What can be deduced from this? Many things; one of which: as we get older we lose our earing......TONE CONTROLS.......WTF.
Why we need tone controls and/or equalizers
- Thread starter Zygmo
- Start date
What can be deduced from this? Many things; one of which: as we get older we lose our earing......TONE CONTROLS.......WTF.
Brett a
~◦●○o0o○●◦~
That's a joke, I assume.
I'm not the only one without tone controls in the main system but who still needs and uses them with my "vintage" gear and in the car, etc.
If my hearing were bad, I would think it would all need tone controls to compensate for my hearing.
And what do you mean by "tone controls...what the f*ck", anyway?
GlobalWarming
Super Member
At 51 my hearing is intact..........If you expect things to happen just because you are getting old, they will happen; life is state of mind.
I also leave everything flat, and I do not consider myself anywhere near being an audiophile.............
I also leave everything flat, and I do not consider myself anywhere near being an audiophile.............
JonL
Lunatic Member
I'm sure my hearing isn't what it was when I was young. However, everything I hear is filtered through the same set of ears all the time, with whatever HF rolloff I've got (and I'm guessing it starts at around 16kHz). I don't think I'd like to boost my stereo's HF to compensate and then have live music sound different. I'd like my stereo to sound as close to what I experience when I listen to live music, right now, at my age, with whatever HF hearing loss I've got. This attitude might be different if I felt my hearing was so poor I couldn't enjoy any music without some compensation, then I might do it on my stereo so I'd have at least one source of musical satisfaction. That's fortunately not the case presently.
reggaenaut
Addicted Member
I assume all your source materials are the same with respect to freq response.
Jon_Logan
Addicted Member
There are no accurate loudspeakers <duck and cover>
Everything has a tolerance. Speakers amplitude response is not great. Far worse that the electronics that feed them.
Shelving controls are a way of shaping the tone to correct or make more pleasing (to our ears) what we hear. Eq's are just a more complicated way to control the tone.
As our ears lose their high frequency sensitivity, our brain still tells us what sounds normal. If somebody was playing a Hi-Hat acoustically and we heard that, the goal is to have the speaker system reproduce that faithfully. ... not to compensate for our diminishing HF rolloff.
Some people like to embellish the tonal balance (tastes driven) and some hope to correct amplitude response anomalies (accuracy driven), all using tone control.
Everything has a tolerance. Speakers amplitude response is not great. Far worse that the electronics that feed them.
Shelving controls are a way of shaping the tone to correct or make more pleasing (to our ears) what we hear. Eq's are just a more complicated way to control the tone.
As our ears lose their high frequency sensitivity, our brain still tells us what sounds normal. If somebody was playing a Hi-Hat acoustically and we heard that, the goal is to have the speaker system reproduce that faithfully. ... not to compensate for our diminishing HF rolloff.
Some people like to embellish the tonal balance (tastes driven) and some hope to correct amplitude response anomalies (accuracy driven), all using tone control.
Just like to point out that my example of classical or unamplified jazz was only pointed out as a method to determine the abilility of the audio system to accurately reproduce what is on a recording, due to the *relatively* uniform sound of unamplified acoustic instruments used in that type of music.
Once that is correct, ALL recordings (rock, Rap, yodeling, Tibetan throat singing etc) should be correctly reproduced. I probably listen to rock 75% of the time, and I don't use EQ.
And now I am done flogging this horse.
Brett a
~◦●○o0o○●◦~
I understand the reasoning that informs this perspective. But where in this view is the space for people who have found, usually through upgrades, that at some point in system evolution, tone controls just get in the way? And that flat and simple is how everything sounds best?
( And just to reiterate, this evolution happens with equipment and room changes, not with aging.)
JonL
Lunatic Member
Yes, I understood your position and agree with it. There were some other posts after I think that said something to the effect of "OK, I can understand leaving it flat for acoustic jazz but not for heavy metal...."
reggaenaut
Addicted Member
In general the URGE to equalise is LESS if the ill effects at certain frequency is less audible due to aging.
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SWL3600
Super Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYqrWRiS204
This is my #1 reference audio.
I listen to it in 18.4 surround sound with the mega loudness button on at 115db's.
It's just like "being there".
This is my #1 reference audio.
I listen to it in 18.4 surround sound with the mega loudness button on at 115db's.
It's just like "being there".
onepixel
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Technically, everyone... controls tone, even if they don't have tone controls. The tone controless do it by selecting specific gear into their system. Often fiddling around until they find a balanced synergy with their equipment, negating any use of tone controls.
Personally, my headphone system only has a volume control. Even volume affects how my ears perceive tones to a minute degree. It sounds near perfect to me, depending on the actual recording. My main system isn't so perfect, especially when using bookshelf sized speakers. So I may give it some help. Both methods work for me.
Personally, my headphone system only has a volume control. Even volume affects how my ears perceive tones to a minute degree. It sounds near perfect to me, depending on the actual recording. My main system isn't so perfect, especially when using bookshelf sized speakers. So I may give it some help. Both methods work for me.
SWL3600
Super Member
The next time I go to a rock concert I'm gonna ask the sound guy if he sets everything flat.....takes a nap....then gets woken up when the show is over.
If someone here has a system with absolutely no "tweakability" whatsoever.....and you can go from string music to Metallica without doing anything and it sounds impressive.......I would sincerely like to hear it.
What he actually does is turn up the singer a bit, then the guitar. Then the keyboards are a little low, so he turns them up. And so on, until the sound turns into loud, annoying, indistinct hash. Meanwhile, his damaged hearing is overtaken by the bass line hitting his body as he goes "yeah!" and cranks up the overall gain a bit more. I have watched (and heard) this many times.
Brett a
~◦●○o0o○●◦~
Well, yes, they kinda do. The ideal, as I understand it, when setting up in a new venue is to adjust the overall EQ of the PA to a flat room response. And they will often use pink noise to determine those settings.
Then, once all the individual balances and levels are set, ideally, they shouldn't need to be changed once the show gets under way.
Besides, I don't aspire for the sound quality of a rock concert (generally speaking). Often that just ends up being a kind of in-your-face undiscerning assault on the senses. If that's what you go for, and that's what you want in your living room, then we're not talking about the same hobby in a sense.
Just as I wouldn't walk into live venue and ask the engineer to bring up the bass, I don't need or want to bring up the bass in my living room either. It sounds best just as it is offered.
I hope you have that opportunity some time.
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Next time you're in downtown Chicago, give me shout.
JonL
Lunatic Member
You know that there might be just a wee bit of difference between the hows and whys of rock concert sound reinforcement and what makes sense for a living room stereo. But actually, AK's own Kevzep does sound engineering in all size venues including large arenas. We should ask him if he continues to tweak the EQ after it's been dialed in for the venue.
As to your second paragraph... next time you're in the NY Metro area c'mon over. (But bring your own Metallica as I have none. I do have other heavy rock though.)