Whoever in the Windows Org at Microsoft OK'ed the ads in the lock screen needs to be fired.
-D
Whoever in the Windows Org at Microsoft OK'ed the ads in the lock screen needs to be fired.
-D
loopstick
Lunatic Member
I think you're barking up the wrong tree.
loopstick
Lunatic Member
I did. No more updates here. No more of that evil vampire Cortana either. Dead. Stake in the heart dead.
Chip Chester
Super Member
Heh. Now, after weeks of MS almost behaving itself, they roll out some sort of bundled, time-saving 'convenience' update for W7. You know, the last "good" OS. Turns out that update adds in buckets of telemetry of your info back to the MS (MotherShip), plus enhanced nag screen for W10 adoption. (Couldn't bring myself to write the word 'upgrade'.)
https://tech.slashdot.org/story/16/...s-big-convenience-rollup-update-for-windows-7
Within the various comments on the link, advice is given on how to disable many of the included updates if you prefer not to be monitored in that way. Of course, you're still monitored in other ways.
Chip
https://tech.slashdot.org/story/16/...s-big-convenience-rollup-update-for-windows-7
Within the various comments on the link, advice is given on how to disable many of the included updates if you prefer not to be monitored in that way. Of course, you're still monitored in other ways.
Chip
c.coyle
Fighting the Dunning-Kruger effect.
When I started this thread in February, I sure didn't think it would be active 170 posts later. It got me to try Linux Mint, and I have to say I'm pretty happy with it. I miss a few Windows programs that are superior to Linux equivalents, but I haven't booted into Windows in a long time.
Microsoft is now rolling up non-security updates, likely including telemetry and nagware, into roll-up (or aggregate) KBs. They are not publishing all of the contents of the roll-up KBs, nor are they publishing info on the contents they do say that the roll-ups contain. If a KB inside a roll-up breaks something, you cannot separately roll back the individual KB, just the entire containing roll-up. They are definitely serious about their agenda. They just don't seem to understand, or care, that many of us more savvy users do not want them snooping and reporting, or slipping a Win-10 upgrade on us, nor do we want to keep saying no to the prompts for upgrade (MS nagware).
I wonder how much of the accumulating telemetry data is available to the powers that be (govt and law enforcement), with or without subpoena, and what the telemetry actually contains. For those whose telemetry is being reported, there can be several gig per month. You can bet that some bad hackers will go in and find out what is in the telemetry data, or, worse, hack their way into the telemetry engines (which are legion), and suck out of our PCs whatever they want, much to the dismay and suffering of naive general users.
Enjoy,
Rich P
I wonder how much of the accumulating telemetry data is available to the powers that be (govt and law enforcement), with or without subpoena, and what the telemetry actually contains. For those whose telemetry is being reported, there can be several gig per month. You can bet that some bad hackers will go in and find out what is in the telemetry data, or, worse, hack their way into the telemetry engines (which are legion), and suck out of our PCs whatever they want, much to the dismay and suffering of naive general users.
Enjoy,
Rich P
Chip Chester
Super Member
And in other nasty, underhanded news... If you click the red x in the corner to dismiss an update nag, it begins the 'upgrade' process. You can still (so far) stop it at the "what time" prompt, but geez. Even the PC World guys call it a "nasty trick", and they drank the Kool-Aid decades ago.
https://tech.slashdot.org/story/16/...clicking-red-x-close-button-in-prompt-message
At what point does "unauthorized access to a computer" prosecution of MS kick in? You can bet that losing a few million local small-claims court judgments of $1999 would start to take their toll on MS (from a publicity, not economic, standpoint.)
Chip
https://tech.slashdot.org/story/16/...clicking-red-x-close-button-in-prompt-message
At what point does "unauthorized access to a computer" prosecution of MS kick in? You can bet that losing a few million local small-claims court judgments of $1999 would start to take their toll on MS (from a publicity, not economic, standpoint.)
Chip
Njoy-Music
Old Time Rock & Roll
And I think this is the point at which someone would have to successfully sue MS and start a basic ground swell of potential lawsuits before MS will even begin to think of backing off. Sure there are other alternatives out there but how many want to change what they know when they are having a hard enough time just figuring out what they do now? Remember there is a reason smart phones and tablets are making MS think about tweaking their OS to run best in one of those environments. The home PC market is not what it once was as I understand it. Would running some form of Linux be better, more stable, more secure? For certain. Now how many of those users refusing to upgrade or complaining about the excess reporting will change their OS? It likely depends to what degree their current software has to have that version of Windows to run reliably in. And to some extent being quite happy with what they have and feeling no need to change it's a frustrating experience. And think about the following:
A lot of Google is free. Yet they spend huge amounts of money on some of the biggest server farms out there. Have a company culture envied by many and pay their people well. How do they do that without charging? Metrics derived from watching what you do, when you do it and how you do it. They make a lot of money from advertisers who pay dearly for the prime real estate on your screen. What space your ad takes up, where it shows up and on what page of a search all determines the price paid because Google knows where your mouse hovers over the screen, where you are most likely to click on an ad, etc. They know people tend to move their mouse over something that interests them in preparation for possibly clicking on it for more info. Yep the exact location of the ad, the ad used, colors used and font used is readily available. And it's tracked whether you ad block or not. It's all hidden away in those little bots, cookies and something Google calls analytics a lot of sites use to see what people who come to their site actually pay the most attention to. And those analytics run in a form that doesn't trip an ad blockers hooks. Shared info between them and Google. So now the company and Google have your info to use as they see fit. I've seen some clues to say that those analytics actually report back to Google instantly and store nothing on your computer that would trip a cookie, ad blocker, malware or virus software something is wrong. It appears as part of the code on the site. Now that info may attempt to generate a tracking cookie or an ad a blocker or software might flag and stop but by then Google and the company already know what you're doing, when you're doing it and where you're doing it.
Remember here that revenue is important to any company to stay alive. Google has proven tracking, watching and selling that info can generate HUGE amounts of revenue and still appear to be free. Microsoft probably wants to get in on that action and take a large chunk of that pie for themselves. And how could they do that? Offer free upgrades of their OS that tracks a lot of that info at the OS level instead of just the Internet side. Potentially providing a much more personalized and detailed saleable info database to sell to advertisers and marketers.
And just because you don't use Google search, Chrome of any of it's services doesn't mean they don't know everything about you. A lot of sites use Google Analytics to track that info when you visit them. Once you visit a site that does you are known to them and can be watched for in the future. A LOT of forum software uses a form of it underneath to help those who use them to better track what happens on their forum. I'd guess a lot of the ads on AK are generated from a reasonable guess of what info or links you tend to click on in a thread. In today's world you can do your best to limit your exposure but short of not going on the net at all from what I've seen it's impossible to eliminate it. I've consulted with companies on the business side of their overall site structure. I've advertised on Google and other sites. Getting access to the info Google can provide to optimize your advertising dollar reveals the HUGE amount of info they can generate from several billion bits of information they've gathered across all of their analytics engines can produce enormous success on the bottom line. And yes there is a thriving business of consultants who make a living doing nothing more than show companies how to take advantage of it.
And something anyone should understand. Google Analytics doesn't care what OS you're running, what browser you're using or version you might be using. Visit a site that uses it and you're in their database. You might be limiting the info they get by what choices you make in OS, updates, virus, malware, tracking, ad blocking, etc or privacy settings overall but if you visit a site needing verification of what's getting looked at on their site to enhance it's productivity and sales potential, more than likely it's using Google software or some form of it to keep an eye on you. And then your OS, OS version, browser, browser version, other software running on that computer, etc. is tracked and reported. I've seen it in a detailed report from several different companies. And that was several years ago. How far they've extended that I have no idea but I doubt it's gotten smaller or less detailed.
More than I wanted to deal with personally and why I got out of the business.
A lot of Google is free. Yet they spend huge amounts of money on some of the biggest server farms out there. Have a company culture envied by many and pay their people well. How do they do that without charging? Metrics derived from watching what you do, when you do it and how you do it. They make a lot of money from advertisers who pay dearly for the prime real estate on your screen. What space your ad takes up, where it shows up and on what page of a search all determines the price paid because Google knows where your mouse hovers over the screen, where you are most likely to click on an ad, etc. They know people tend to move their mouse over something that interests them in preparation for possibly clicking on it for more info. Yep the exact location of the ad, the ad used, colors used and font used is readily available. And it's tracked whether you ad block or not. It's all hidden away in those little bots, cookies and something Google calls analytics a lot of sites use to see what people who come to their site actually pay the most attention to. And those analytics run in a form that doesn't trip an ad blockers hooks. Shared info between them and Google. So now the company and Google have your info to use as they see fit. I've seen some clues to say that those analytics actually report back to Google instantly and store nothing on your computer that would trip a cookie, ad blocker, malware or virus software something is wrong. It appears as part of the code on the site. Now that info may attempt to generate a tracking cookie or an ad a blocker or software might flag and stop but by then Google and the company already know what you're doing, when you're doing it and where you're doing it.
Remember here that revenue is important to any company to stay alive. Google has proven tracking, watching and selling that info can generate HUGE amounts of revenue and still appear to be free. Microsoft probably wants to get in on that action and take a large chunk of that pie for themselves. And how could they do that? Offer free upgrades of their OS that tracks a lot of that info at the OS level instead of just the Internet side. Potentially providing a much more personalized and detailed saleable info database to sell to advertisers and marketers.
And just because you don't use Google search, Chrome of any of it's services doesn't mean they don't know everything about you. A lot of sites use Google Analytics to track that info when you visit them. Once you visit a site that does you are known to them and can be watched for in the future. A LOT of forum software uses a form of it underneath to help those who use them to better track what happens on their forum. I'd guess a lot of the ads on AK are generated from a reasonable guess of what info or links you tend to click on in a thread. In today's world you can do your best to limit your exposure but short of not going on the net at all from what I've seen it's impossible to eliminate it. I've consulted with companies on the business side of their overall site structure. I've advertised on Google and other sites. Getting access to the info Google can provide to optimize your advertising dollar reveals the HUGE amount of info they can generate from several billion bits of information they've gathered across all of their analytics engines can produce enormous success on the bottom line. And yes there is a thriving business of consultants who make a living doing nothing more than show companies how to take advantage of it.
And something anyone should understand. Google Analytics doesn't care what OS you're running, what browser you're using or version you might be using. Visit a site that uses it and you're in their database. You might be limiting the info they get by what choices you make in OS, updates, virus, malware, tracking, ad blocking, etc or privacy settings overall but if you visit a site needing verification of what's getting looked at on their site to enhance it's productivity and sales potential, more than likely it's using Google software or some form of it to keep an eye on you. And then your OS, OS version, browser, browser version, other software running on that computer, etc. is tracked and reported. I've seen it in a detailed report from several different companies. And that was several years ago. How far they've extended that I have no idea but I doubt it's gotten smaller or less detailed.
More than I wanted to deal with personally and why I got out of the business.
Browsing and internet activities are not trade secrets, proprietary information, legally privileged information, medical information, banking information, investment information, etc. An OS has access to information like no software to date. MS OS even has access to key logging (unless specifically stated during installation of Win10), and whatever else is governed by the OS. MS will not reveal what is going out in the several gig of data being sniffed per month.
Many computers are critical to business operation, medical care, legal representation, etc. Some update KBs have been known to break various computer capabilities, even the overall ability for the computer to function. When such happens, The standard help desk response is, "Please grant me remote access to your computer." This is not possible if internet access, or computer function is rendered inop. It is also not prudent, especially when the help agent is in an unknown country, with unknown additional intentions.
Blocking un-vetted, undesired updates is necessary for safe computing. I'm tired of serving as a beta site for software providers. Blocking undesired "telemetry" is also necessary for safe computing. "I" want to decide what information uploads out of my computer. Some do not feel that such is true or necessary. More power to them. My desire is that they make such decisions on an informed basis, instead of naive trust in corporate consideration of user best interests.
If/when MS returns control of updates to me, and gives me the power to truly stop telemetry scooping, I will be on board when my current machine and OS ages out. Otherwise, alternate OS considerations will be at the top of my hit parade. As it is, I recently discovered that telemetry engines had already installed themselves on my Win7 machine, before I knew to check out each update KB before installing. These specific updates fought tooth and nail to stay on my machine, when I tried to roll them back. Strange huh? Not so much. I got them out, but not until several hours of battle and trepidation had taken place. Win10? You can have it.
Rich P
Many computers are critical to business operation, medical care, legal representation, etc. Some update KBs have been known to break various computer capabilities, even the overall ability for the computer to function. When such happens, The standard help desk response is, "Please grant me remote access to your computer." This is not possible if internet access, or computer function is rendered inop. It is also not prudent, especially when the help agent is in an unknown country, with unknown additional intentions.
Blocking un-vetted, undesired updates is necessary for safe computing. I'm tired of serving as a beta site for software providers. Blocking undesired "telemetry" is also necessary for safe computing. "I" want to decide what information uploads out of my computer. Some do not feel that such is true or necessary. More power to them. My desire is that they make such decisions on an informed basis, instead of naive trust in corporate consideration of user best interests.
If/when MS returns control of updates to me, and gives me the power to truly stop telemetry scooping, I will be on board when my current machine and OS ages out. Otherwise, alternate OS considerations will be at the top of my hit parade. As it is, I recently discovered that telemetry engines had already installed themselves on my Win7 machine, before I knew to check out each update KB before installing. These specific updates fought tooth and nail to stay on my machine, when I tried to roll them back. Strange huh? Not so much. I got them out, but not until several hours of battle and trepidation had taken place. Win10? You can have it.
Rich P
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Chip Chester
Super Member
It seems MS has reversed themselves on "dismissed update box updates anyway" feature. Interestingly, due to public opinion. No mention of why they thought that was OK to do in the first place, though.
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-36376962
Chip
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-36376962
Chip
loopstick
Lunatic Member
That's fricking sleazy. It's like stumbling onto a porn site and trying to get away from it and every time you click on what you think is gonna get you out (like the "x") you sink deeper and deeper into the quicksand. What a bunch of slimes. I actually like my Win10 machine now that I got most if not all the MS Big Brother **** crippled. It is 64 bits and stuff compiled on it is snappier then the exact same thing compiled on my 32-bit XP machine. I like the hardware - but I prefer an OS that's not always heavy breathing down my neck.
You should continue to keep abreast of MS sleaze. Folks have tested and studied, and found that subsequent KB updates turn some previously disabled telemetry back on, and some telemetry remains on even after all attempts and switches are actuated to turn it off. This is discoverable during monitoring of outgoing data on your network, and you will note that there are literally dozens and dozens of sites receiving such data.
I don't fault you for liking Win10. It has the potential to be quite a nice OS. It is that I just don't trust them right now, for good cause. I have great respect for MS coders. Being a software weenie myself, I have been impressed, for a very long time, with what has been included in their OSs. I have written some pretty rarefied programs, and have been frequently, and pleasantly, surprised that my desires have been anticipated, and provided for, via included OS functionality, if "not ready to use APIs."
Enjoy,
Rich P
loopstick
Lunatic Member
My problem is unlike you, Bugle, and others - I'm just not savvy enough to know if I've successfully exterminated all the evil processes. I mostly disable services and killed Cortana using the on-the-fly folder-rename trick. Once in a while I'll need to temporarily enable a disabled service to get something broken to work. But then it goes back on the disabled list. Good times.
You are well ahead of the curve and that is all we are doing.
Stay vigilant but try and have fun with the computer even if at the core its a evil , twisted thing.
Monsters can be tamed and are a hit at many a party.
Frannie
Captain581
Active Member
FOR THOSE WANTING TO TEMPORARILY OR PERMANENTLY DISABLE WIN10 UPDATES:
Lincoln Spector has been writing for PC World for over a decade - I've come to trust him. He discovered a simple free app. that when installed, can block all Win10 nags and upgrades. If you do later decided to permit the Win10 upgrade, the app. will let you reverse the blocking process. I installed it on my Win7 machine and have had no Win10 issues since. The link to this GWX program is in his article - click the link and download/install the GWX (Get Windows 10) control panel:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2998967/windows/how-to-block-the-windows-10-upgrade.html
You need only click two buttons (I circled in yellow)
It was that simple and it worked.
Lincoln Spector has been writing for PC World for over a decade - I've come to trust him. He discovered a simple free app. that when installed, can block all Win10 nags and upgrades. If you do later decided to permit the Win10 upgrade, the app. will let you reverse the blocking process. I installed it on my Win7 machine and have had no Win10 issues since. The link to this GWX program is in his article - click the link and download/install the GWX (Get Windows 10) control panel:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2998967/windows/how-to-block-the-windows-10-upgrade.html
You need only click two buttons (I circled in yellow)
It was that simple and it worked.
There's another program written by Steve Gibson that I just ran across - Never 10. Appears to have some good reviews on its effectiveness. Interface is kind of clunky and non-gui but that's Steve's MO. No affiliation other than being an old Spin-Rite user/owner.
https://www.grc.com/never10.htm
http://www.pcworld.com/article/3048...solutely-positively-dont-want-windows-10.html
This article seems to provide some good details about the upgrade/stop upgrade process:
http://www.computerworld.com/article/3049996/windows-pcs/blocking-windows-10-with-never10.html
https://www.grc.com/never10.htm
http://www.pcworld.com/article/3048...solutely-positively-dont-want-windows-10.html
This article seems to provide some good details about the upgrade/stop upgrade process:
http://www.computerworld.com/article/3049996/windows-pcs/blocking-windows-10-with-never10.html
Why does it feel like we are fighting against the MS Borg here? And frankly, I don't care if the Win10 free offer dies in July, I'm just not interested in Win10 if it means giving up my right to privacy from my OS.
Its going to be very interesting if after July, MS starts making noise about collecting ANY licensing fees or subscription fees on any part of Win10. Yeah, I know, they say they aren't going to do that, but I believe MS is looking to further monetize Win10 and that's the next step.
Its going to be very interesting if after July, MS starts making noise about collecting ANY licensing fees or subscription fees on any part of Win10. Yeah, I know, they say they aren't going to do that, but I believe MS is looking to further monetize Win10 and that's the next step.