• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Wiring three pairs of speakers

I don't consider the use of an additional power amp or integrated too much added gear or wiring. All it needs is a power socket and a stereo RCA cable to connect line output (or tape out) from one amp to line input on the other.
It would solve all the problems, add some much needed power to drive a third set of speakers and avoid all the certain pitfalls of overloading the current amplifier.
150W may seem a lot but when it boils down to feeding amperes (that's what make the speakers move) to the voice coils with a 2.5Ohm max impedance (perhaps 1 Ohm or less at various frequencies) things would get rough for a single amp even in low volumes.
 
Looks like I wasn't too far off.
Basically swapping my current selector box with an impedance matching version (as suggested above).
Sounds like an easy solution.

Thanks everyone!

With the risk of coming across stupid, can we confirm that it's ok for me to keep the rest of the setup/configuration (other than switching the selector) the way I have it now?
Which is:
- Pre-Main coupler on the receiver in Off position
- Pre-Outs of receiver connected to the Line-Ins of the PSW2150 sub, and the sub's High Pass Outs to the Main Ins of the receiver
- Q500s bi-wired (from terminal A)
- Terminal B wired to the impedance matching selector
- From the selector box: line 1 goes out to upstairs speakers, line 2 out to kitchen speakers (of course no bi-wiring here)

I just want to make sure all the pre-main and bi-wiring business doesn't do anything alarming to our impedance/load equation.

Almost there....
Appreciate your advice and patience!
 
I'll take the added power amp solution into consideration too, as an improvement further down the road.
 
Is that an unreasonable or confusing question?
Let me try to simplify.
I guess what I'm asking is this. When I run both A and B channels simultaneously:
- Does channel B care if channel A is bi-wired and channel B is not?
- Can I keep the pre/main coupler on the receiver turned off (meaning pre and main are disconnected, not bridged)?

Thank you!
 
If only "A" or "B" is used at a time, it will not matter.

Make sure you have the "coupler switch" (reason I have in quotes is because I never heard of a unit with this feature before) in the ON position when listening to speakers connected at the "B" output terminals (which in this case means the speaker selector box) otherwise the speakers connected to "B" will be influenced by the low pass filter.

It will not be possible for all 3 speaker pairs to receive the full frequency signal when all 3 are operated simultaneously.
 
Thank you, 62caddy! Appreciate it!

Are you saying:
With my current gear (incl. impedance matching speaker selector) there's no good way to run 3 speaker pairs plus the sub all at the same time?
That would be really disappointing! Am I asking for too much here?!

Or is it more like:
To run all 3 speaker pairs I'd have to bridge pre and main (coupler switch on) and give up the sub? Would that solve the problem?
If so, is there a way to wire the sub differently so that I can have the coupler switch on and still use the sub? How would I do that?

Nobody commenting on the combination of bi-wiring on channel A and "regular" wiring on channel B I have to assume it's not a concern by itself – correct?

I'm dizzy right now...
 
Raphaz said:
To run all 3 speaker pairs I'd have to bridge pre and main (coupler switch on) and give up the sub? Would that solve the problem?
If so, is there a way to wire the sub differently so that I can have the coupler switch on and still use the sub? How would I do that?
Click to expand...

When the signal passes through the LF filter, the signal entering back into the main amplifier will only be suitable for driving the "top end" of the speakers being used with the subwoofers which is set "A". Since a single receiver is being used to power all speakers, naturally it follows that any speakers connected to the receiver will be identically affected by whatever processing taking place in the signal path.

"B" may still be played along with "A" but the bass will effectively be eliminated.

You're basically expecting a single receiver to process a given signal in two different ways at the same time. To do this, you'll need another receiver which puts us back at square one. At least the receiver offers the convenience of processor bypass switching. Many do not- in which case you'd have to switch around cables every time you wanted to listen to "A" or "B".
 
Ok, I'm convinced now.
I guess I'll have to get my old Nikko NR-1219 receiver out to add to the system (I think it's 4-16 Ohms).

If I follow rwartner's instructions correctly:
- from the R-2000 Tape/Rec Out to the Aux In on the Nikko
- keep the mains and sub connected to the R-2000 as is
- from one speaker channel of the Nikko out to the speaker selector's Receiver/Amp In (and from there to the other two sets of speakers)
Is that about right?

Means that would enable me to hear the exact same music on all sets of speakers, correct? With the added benefit that I can control the volume of the mains vs the other tow pairs separately, if I'm not mistaken.

My ears wonder lately if the bi-wiring and the pre/main sub is really the best sounding method for the mains/sub and worth all the wires – but that is probably meat for a separate topic.
 
Connect speakers to the 2 amps as if the amps are not connected to one another.

As if the 2 receivers are in different rooms. The 2 receivers work independently even though they are connected.

The first receiver is a conduit as if there is a straight wire running through it to the 2nd receiver.

You must consider what the Tape/Rec is doing or what it was originally meant for. It is supposed to pass through to the tape recorder without modifying the sound.

Theoretically you can daisy chain an infinite number of receivers (I'm guessing).

Turn down all volume controls first. Volume comes through what the source gives it.
 
Some good ways to operate multiple speaker pairs safely, Unless 2 pairs are 8 ohms with some amps is to use either an impedance matching speaker selector box like the skipper suggested in post #20, Or use separate amplifiers for each speaker for the best SQ.

If you have a preamp output, You can add a 2'nd or more (by splitting the preamp output) power amp to drive extra speakers. The tape output has a fixed level and may not have enough gain to drive a power amp to full power. Using a receiver or integrated amps tape inputs may work in a pinch, But this just adds more processing, Which will produce poorer SQ then the worst of the units. Daisy chaining them makes it even worse.

The best option might be using an amp with multiple channels. Starting from scratch I would go with a used older 7 channel AVR (which can be had cheap) that allows full remote control of all 7 speakers in a single box. The older AVR's were often more like 7 powerful amplifiers with performance equalling (and sometimes surpassing) good stereo receivers and amps.
 
Last edited:
Ok, the Nikko is now back in the system.
From the main receiver I go out through Tape 2 Rec Out to the Nikko’s Aux In.
One set of speaker wires go from the Nikko out to the (impedance matching) speaker switch for the secondary speakers.
So far so good.

Unfortunately, when I play a CD I only get sound output from the right channel on the Nikko/secondary, nothing on the left.
While the mains are still stereo.

I tried a different cable: left only;
tried to go out of the main’s Tape 1: left only;
tried radio from the main: left only;
tried radio directly from the Nikko: stereo

What’s happening here?!
 
Charles, I can’t start from scratch and buy new amps and stuff right now. I don’t have the time and money for it. I’m trying to work with what I have.
I was hoping with pre/main and A, B, C and A+B options and tons of power, plus an added receiver (with pre/main option and two channels as well), amplitude-matching speaker switch... I should be able to make it work.

The other thing is I like good vintage gear. I may not be able to afford the same or better sound quality with newer gear (7 channels), and I may have to match other things.
Oh, and getting into surround would be a whole new endeavor by itself.
Again, I try to work with what I have for now - until I win the jackpot that is.

The above didn’t seem to work for some reason.

If I do what you suggest, Charles, and use the Pre/Main of the main receiver to link to the second receiver, what do I do with the sub (currently fed via pre/main). Can I use some sort of Y-adapter for the Pre-Out? If so, do I use the Aux or Main In on the second receiver?
 
Not sure I understand this -
One set of speaker wires go from the Nikko out to the (impedance matching) speaker switch for the secondary speakers.

Don't know what that is.

Speakers should be connected directly to Nikko.


You say only one channel from Nikko but internal radio works. All of your connections into Nikko are Aux.
If you plugged a CD player - into Aux does it work?

Plugging first amp into second amp Aux is just like plugging anything you would normally plug into Aux.

You can also plug into the Tape in instead of Aux. Looks like Aux and Tape In are only inputs on Nikko (except phono).
 
rwartner said:
Not sure I understand this -
One set of speaker wires go from the Nikko out to the (impedance matching) speaker switch for the secondary speakers.

Don't know what that is.

Speakers should be connected directly to Nikko.


You say only one channel from Nikko but internal radio works. All of your connections into Nikko are Aux.
If you plugged a CD player - into Aux does it work?

Plugging first amp into second amp Aux is just like plugging anything you would normally plug into Aux.

You can also plug into the Tape in instead of Aux. Looks like Aux and Tape In are only inputs on Nikko (except phono).
Click to expand...
 
rwartner:
Everything (phono, tape, CD...) goes into the first receiver, which is connected per Tape 2 Rec Out to the Nikko’s Aux In.

For the secondary system speaker wires are connected directly to the Nikko, and then split via the switch to allow for two sets of speakers (I can turn off/on each set independently, and won’t have to worry too much about impedance).

Anyway, I disconnected and re-connected everything. Not sure what I did differently, but both channels work now on the Nikko.

Unfortunately I now hear distortion when playing CDs on the main system...
 
OK everything seems to be hooked up correctly. I would try the CD player into different input on first - try tape in and then into second system to compare. Maybe switch receivers - make second first.
 
Your CD player into first receiver should be heard by second receiver. Whatever is playing on first goes to second.
Is it distorted on second when hooked up to first? Hooking up second receiver should not cause distortion. Was this happening before?
 
Distortion seems to be gone. I have no idea where it came from, I don’t think I did anything different. But hey, I’ll take it.

CD, phono, radio, tape, now all play well on both receivers.
Everything’s fine - or so I thought.

But then:
The second receiver refuses to pick up the laptop. The laptop is hooked up to the first receiver’s Tape PB and works well with the first receiver but the second receiver does not pick up anything. I tried to feed it into both Tape 1 PB and Tape 2 PB on the main receiver – same result: the first receiver plays it, the second doesn't.
I then fed the laptop into Aux on the main receiver (which is usually used for CD), that is picked up by the second receiver. Ok, good. But if I then feed the CD into Tape PB the second receiver now doesn’t pick up the CD either.

The second receiver picks up the tape deck hooked up to Tape 1 or 2 PB on the main receiver though, no problem. Huh?
That basically means the signal that goes into tape playback for some reason is not sent out to the second receiver unless the signal comes from a tape deck. Why?!

I’m sure I’m just doing something wrong here!
How do I solve that (hopefully last challenge)?

[See attached picture for reference]

Audio_System_Wiring_Issues_s.jpg


Oh, I forgot, there's a little hum on the first receiver (barely noticeable) that is now more amplified when the second receiver is powered on.
What could that be?

Tired! I just want to listen and enjoy already!

Thank you all for your help and patience!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom