Would you consider going from B&W 802D to Focal Sopra 3

[onehorsepony]

Would anyone consider moving from the B&W 802D (first diamond model) to the Sopra 3?

I'm always curious to hear what others think.

thanks in advance....

 

[sqlsavior]

I listened to a pair of big Focals for a few minutes at RMAF 2016. An orchestral piece sounded very good until the climax, which seemed harsh and irritating. To be fair, that could be any of a number of things, including the recording.

Without listening to the Focals at home and being thoroughly delighted by them, I wouldn't make that move - it just seems like more of the same to me - another large cone & dome three-way, brightly colored instead of 'brown'. Feel free to disregard my opinion - but you asked...

 

[onehorsepony]

I appreciate your comments. I often think my 802's are a bit on the bright/hot side disguised as resolution. I did notice some brightness on the Sopra's as well.

Is this the new normal for high end speakers, to have that sizzle at the top. Kindof the new normal from everyone listening to mp3's over the last 20 years?

 

[sqlsavior]

What we used to call a 'sweet top end' does indeed seem out of fashion these days, judging from reviews and comments from people who are not happy about it. In the past I have made statements such as "Half of everything over 15 kHz is hash" because even if it isn't recorded that way, so much equipment will add its own, anywhere in the chain, it seems. Not having any gratuitous tizz can sometimes be disarming, until genuine high-frequency content comes along to remind me that the highs are indeed there, after all. I'm missing my magnetic passive preamp - some electronics contribute so much of that crap that many people wouldn't even notice more added somewhere else, I think. My Rega Saturn CD player is the worst I've encountered in that respect, funny because I liked their (original) Apollo much more.

My prescription? A magnetic passive preamp plus two 'stats, before bedtime.

 

[oldflame]

I appreciate your comments. I often think my 802's are a bit on the bright/hot side disguised as resolution. I did notice some brightness on the Sopra's as well.

Is this the new normal for high end speakers, to have that sizzle at the top. Kindof the new normal from everyone listening to mp3's over the last 20 years?

So it seems. Even with my very compromised HF hearing, so many systems have too much bite for me. My good-sized stereo room, with grass wall "paper", full carpeting, over-stuffed furniture, drapes and old "acoustic" ceiling tiles, would still let the speakers show their teeth on some recordings. After changing one burned out aluminum-domed tweeter with a silk replacement the problem went away on that side.

Even though my 20 year old speakers weren't known for a rising top end, some occasional HF resonance may be the problem. Surprisingly, the soft-dome tweeter has more air and plenty of treble compared to the metal unit. I'll be changing the other speaker's tweeter now that I know what to expect.

With most high-end stereo gear aimed at older listeners, maybe designers are trying to compensate for what they believe is our poorer HF hearing.

 

[onehorsepony]

Could be. It seems like there is some sort of tweeter war out there. B&W has their diamond tweeter, which as i mentioned can be a bit hot at times. Focal has their beryllium tweeter. It's a shame that not only are there a limited amount of stereo stores around, most cannot justify holding an inventory of more than a few brands. The best I've heard so far were the Sonus Fabor Amati, tho only heard once. But they are a bit out of my price range.

Also, it would be nice to find a full range speaker that can play well at lower levels.

 

[RunOutGroove]

I've never heard those speakers to be able to compare, but I heard a pair of Tekton OB Sigma speakers recently, which are admittedly maybe not in the same class as the aforementioned ones as they go for a fair bit cheaper, but they're really open sounding floor standing speakers and with a really smooth top end... at least to my ears. I thought they sounded great!

 

[KB007]

I really like the Focals I have and both times they have been utopia series. I've heard the Sopras before and while they re good, they are not as good as Utopias. If you can try to listen to a pair of Scala Utopia Evos.

 

[sqlsavior]

Also, it would be nice to find a full range speaker that can play well at lower levels.

Again, 'stats.

 

[onehorsepony]

I'm sure the utopia's sound amazing.... but the sopra 3's are really at my price limit

 

[Spe@kerBox]

What we used to call a 'sweet top end' does indeed seem out of fashion these days, judging from reviews and comments from people who are not happy about it. In the past I have made statements such as "Half of everything over 15 kHz is hash" because even if it isn't recorded that way, so much equipment will add its own, anywhere in the chain, it seems. Not having any gratuitous tizz can sometimes be disarming, until genuine high-frequency content comes along to remind me that the highs are indeed there, after all. I'm missing my magnetic passive preamp - some electronics contribute so much of that crap that many people wouldn't even notice more added somewhere else, I think. My Rega Saturn CD player is the worst I've encountered in that respect, funny because I liked their (original) Apollo much more.

My prescription? A magnetic passive preamp plus two 'stats, before bedtime.

I have come to associate that harshness with digital. Never seems to be an issue when I listen to my VPI table. Denon 301 II is good to 30khz.

 

[Spe@kerBox]

What is your digital front end? You spend money on a VPI TT, did you spend the same for your digital front end? If not, there you go. Most DACs are more than the sum of their parts.

I have had many CD players that were well regarded (Rotel RCD855, Sony NS999ES, with or without Musical fidelity DAC or NAD M15 DAC). No joy for my ears.

 

[Spe@kerBox]

Well, there you go. Try something like a Denafrips Aries II which is a R2R ladder DAC. As I said, DACs have different sound because of the USB front end and the analog output stage.

Don't judge ALL DACs/CD players based on those.

I have heard some of the higher end DACs at shows and shops and was never impressed either. The NAD M15 built in DAC was very well regarded too (sucked IMHO). My ears tell me that digital has some issues. Agree to disagree.

 

[sqlsavior]

I have come to associate that harshness with digital. Never seems to be an issue when I listen to my VPI table. Denon 301 II is good to 30khz.

I think one way digital and analog are alike is that there are good recordings and bad recordings. IME, nothing can help super-compressed and peak-limited digital recordings, and they are harsh in a way that I associate with digital, too. But good digital recordings can sound beautiful, and harshness is then the equipment's fault, such as that Saturn I mentioned. In the same comparison, my Marantz SACD/CD player was the darkest sounding, and it sounds most like my vinyl, with good recordings.

Then again, people do hear differently...

 

[Vintagear]

Also the D3's re not as bright as the D or D2 series.

That is incorrect.

 

[Vintagear]

I have listened to them side by side at a dealer who had the 803D, D2 and D3. Have you? All through the same front end system and the D's and D2's were WAY brighter compared to the D3's.

Something was positioned differently at your dealer then for you to get that impression. I have listened to them in my own home, in the same exact spot, with the same amplifiers and the D3 are brighter. I have owned the D2 for over 5 years now so I am very, very familiar with how they sound.

 

[Vintagear]

NOPE - they put the speakers in the EXACT same place, as a friend was looking to buy and I went with him. He asked them to put them in the exact same place so there was no issue that you have mentioned.. I, also, have a friend that had the 802 D and D2's and then moved onto Karma and then to Wilson.

I heard what I heard. You don't like my opinion sorry.

Why are you so insistent I am wrong? It is MY OPINION.

You can have an opinion that the earth is flat but it doesn't mean that you are correct even if you state it with absolute confidence. You can also have an opinion that Red is prettier than Blue and I'd have no problem with that - but I would have to say that you were incorrect if you told me that in your opinion Red is Blue and Blue is Red when that is demonstrably false.

I don't mind your opinion but your original post that I referenced made it seem like you were stating a fact. The bottom line is that your statement (or opinion) can easily be proven to be incorrect and misleading. In reality, the truth is actually quite the opposite of what you stated.
Don't take my experience or word for it. Just look at any measurements made by the same person on the D2 & D3 series. Find and compare JA's measurements or here's an interesting read by Bob Ludwig also with measurements:

https://planethifi.com/bw-805-d3/

Like I said, something was definitely wrong if you auditioned them side by side and you couldn't hear the 3dB bump in the D3s!


"However, one thing must be said clearly: the B&W 805 D3 is clearly brighter than its predecessor; this is certainly not an advantage in “bright” and reverberant rooms. But it also sounds much more open, energetic, passionate, lively, ultimately authentic; you can hear the advantages of the new membrane material."
-Bob Ludwig

"Measurement 1 shows the frequency curve of the predecessor 805 D2: It is fairly balanced, measurement 2 shows the frequency curve of the B&W 805 D3. It increases by about 3 decibels from 2,500 Hertz – you can hear that. This is the best way to see the new tonal direction."
-Bob Ludwig

 

[Will S.]

Are you guys mixing stand mounters and floor standers and expecting a legit comparison?

 

[KentTeffeteller]

What we used to call a 'sweet top end' does indeed seem out of fashion these days, judging from reviews and comments from people who are not happy about it. In the past I have made statements such as "Half of everything over 15 kHz is hash" because even if it isn't recorded that way, so much equipment will add its own, anywhere in the chain, it seems. Not having any gratuitous tizz can sometimes be disarming, until genuine high-frequency content comes along to remind me that the highs are indeed there, after all. I'm missing my magnetic passive preamp - some electronics contribute so much of that crap that many people wouldn't even notice more added somewhere else, I think. My Rega Saturn CD player is the worst I've encountered in that respect, funny because I liked their (original) Apollo much more.

My prescription? A magnetic passive preamp plus two 'stats, before bedtime.

Passive preamp and stats isn't a solution for everyone. And inefficient and bass light. That said, you are on to something about the audio content above 15 Khz (I agree with you on that). I have enough input needs, that I can really justify a small broadcast console of better grade (like an Auditronics 110 series or PR&E classic like a BMX).

 

[Will S.]

No - they were all floorstanders of the same size from different series.

Right, but @Vintagear was talking about 805s.