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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Zilch said:
Second, I don't know what you mean by a "contemporary" AR.
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I think he meant an AR speaker that was a contemporary of the Pioneer in question. In other words, the Pioneer didn't sound as good as standout speakers of the same time, e.g. AR's.

Pio: with the woofer crossed over that high you really wouldn't have to do any work to try EWG out on that set. Just put the WG on top of your boxes and run the woofer output of the crossover into the terminals on the Pioneers. The tweeter would be about 24dB down at the low end of its range. This would give you a good idea of what you could expect with a full rebuild. Of course you'd still have to commit to the EWG setup or find one to borrow and try it out.

Ray
 
Pio1980 said:
I'm not expecting the impossible but pleasant suprizes are always welcome.
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You don't have to modify anything to try E'Wave. Just bring the woofer leads out the port and connect it up. What Ray said'll work fine, too.

Yes, in detail, the smaller waveguides behave somewhat differently; they each have their particular "character." The dispersion of the 6" square one is 90° x 90°, for example, while the others are 90° x 50°.... :yes:

RayW said:
Of course you'd still have to commit to the EWG setup or find one to borrow and try it out.
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If he doesn't like it with the Pioneer woofers and boxes, he could also try it with a variety of different bass options and expand his standing as a bonafide DIY experimental speakergeek.... :tongue:
 
I, not a fan of modern horn speakers
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If you are thinking of modern horn system such as Avantgarde, you are in for a surprise with econowave. Econowave doesn't sound anything like it. Econowave sounds open, natural, and dynamic. :music:
 
Pio1980 said:
T
I assume the largest WG fit-able would be preferable and the choice would ultimately determine the voicing details of the system.
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Yes, definitely, on both points.

The larger waveguide allows playing the HF driver lower, giving more flexibility in tuning the system (more 'overlap' available between HF driver and woofer, to use in the tuning process- you have more leeway in where you set the crossover point).

In these cases, you're really not giving up top-end response by using a larger horn (that is, nothing that can't be tuned by properly setting the HF compensation circuit)... so, the larger horn is the closest thing to "more free lunch" that you can have...

Regards,
Gordon.
 
Clmrt said:
One of the wires slipped out of the nut on C1. Found it right after I posted. the 2nd XO worked right off the bat.

They're running in right now.
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Well, it's time for a little report...

:thmbsp:

It should be noted that these are 210's.

I'm thinking of going with the .33uf for C3 to tame the highs, but I'm not certain it's really necessary. Maybe to experiment.

When I started ordering parts I couldn't find any 1.5mh coils. I had .33's in my parts bin so I ordered 1.25's to combine. In my haste to assemble the crossovers, I 'accidentally' (not really) left the 33's out. Initial listening didn't go well, things didn't seem integrated. I made my mind up that we were just getting used to each other and it would get better in the days ahead.

Then I saw my .33 coils and added them to the rig.

:smoke:

Now the body came back to the midrange and the speaker started to sound whole. I left them running while I was at work and noticed that they settled in a bit, the highs cleaned up a little if anything.

Once my backordered 1.5mh coils arrive I'll set the XO into a more permanent fixture. Maybe one where I can flip a switch to bring in the .33 or .47 cap? We'll see if that's necessary.

I'm also considering the bi-amp option. I may have to experiment with that...

Thanks to Z, Kegger, Jack, Gordon and everyone else who did the heavy lifting for this project. Most appreciated.

Equip:

JBL 123A-1 12" Drivers
Altec 872A Cabinets, 3.32 cf sealed, Q = .9 (a little boomy)
Pyle WGs
D210Ti
Low-eff type EWXO

NAD 1130
Crown D-150A II
 

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FWIW, here's the lowpass a couple of us are using with closed-box JBL 123A(-x), derived from the very early work Mxlews and I did with C36:

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I'll be reconfirming this with Wiredbecker's E'Waves here soon.

I believe everyone who's used 123As in this alignment has found them to be a little boomy.

[We've also decided we like it like that.... ;) ]


Edit: We stuffed 'em pretty good w/R-21 fiberglass:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=132560#post132560
 

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clmrt,
nice looking ewave!
i bet those 123's give nice and smooth bass.

while i really like how my altec 414's sound, i'm curios to try different woofers.
 
zilch,
now you gotta make a deal with selenium and buy the drivers in bulk. that way, we all have 2-3 extra pairs to experiment with. :D

one time, while i was looking for decent attenuators for my tube preamp, i thought about buying 300 of them (minimum) at wholesale price (less than 50% of ebay price), but glad i realized that was a dumb idea. :D
 
Just a few teaser pics on my E-Waves...

It's been woodworking and not audio that I've been dealing with. The veneering with ironing on raw flitches of veneer instead of using one large paperbacked sheet was hell, and that's being generous. Lots of issues with matching, straight edges, seams, chips, etc, etc. But I think they look pretty good. :D
This is the coat of thinned boiled linseed oil on the rosewood to pop the grain. Once it dries, I'll touch up the cab sides where I sanded through the 5 coats of Deft and the stain, and they'll be ready for the final finishing tomorrow.

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Much better looking crossover!

I've wanted to make these crossovers look better since day one.
Thanks to Jackgiff, they are! Thanks Jack.

Russellc
 

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Very Nice........

Andyman,
Mmmm....Those look edible!....Beautiful job, please post completed pics.....
Cheers, T:thmbsp:
 
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