Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker
- Thread starter Zilch
- Start date
It's Jack's etching tutorial, actually, not mine.
That board layout is a more generic implementation of the highpass and HF comp, with provisions to add a third pole. When using it for E'Wave, the extra cap location just gets jumpered, the blue wire in Russell's build:
http://audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=119226&d=1227383731
The dedicated E'Wave board is shown by Jack here, and in subsequent posts by others:
http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2281446#post2281446
It's a more compact layout, without the extra cap, but with added features such as biamping, on-board direct input terminals, and L-pad connections.... :yes:
dnewma04
The Healer
You men the guys who follow Geddes with their noses betwixt his butt cheeks?
wahhhh!
russellc
My my. So bitter, you are.
We certainly cannot forget how helpful Earl has been to E'Wave in measuring the polar response of the HF driver and waveguide; he's credited as a member of the Project Support team here.... :thmbsp:My my. So bitter, you are.
These things look like hell and they have no right sounding this good..... But I'll be damned if they don't sound terrific. 
In the mix: a horrendously beat up pair of C56 Dorian Cabs, a couple LE14A with new surrounds, a pair of Selenium D210Ti, Pyle Pro PT Waveguides... and crossover parts...
The Brothers in Arms in the pictures? JBL L200B and 250Ti Limited Editions.
Yes, they sound good, damn good.
Look on, if you dare: Mind you, it's a trial run. I have a pair of absolute mint L55 cabs, which are almost identical to the C56 Dorians.
In the mix: a horrendously beat up pair of C56 Dorian Cabs, a couple LE14A with new surrounds, a pair of Selenium D210Ti, Pyle Pro PT Waveguides... and crossover parts...
The Brothers in Arms in the pictures? JBL L200B and 250Ti Limited Editions.
Yes, they sound good, damn good.
Look on, if you dare: Mind you, it's a trial run. I have a pair of absolute mint L55 cabs, which are almost identical to the C56 Dorians.
Attachments
Heh, heh.These things look like hell and they have no right sounding this good..... But I'll be damned if they don't sound terrific.
Deconstructivist E'Waves RULE! :thmbsp:
You have made Skywave, founder of the Dumpster Bin design movement here, VERY proud....
[You have made Skywave, founder of the Dumpster Bin design movement here, VERY proud....
It takes a significant effort to find a gem within other peoples trash and convert it into a L200B nutbuster.
In initial listening comparisons, I'd suggest that these EWGs sound better than a L200B (at least my recent acquisition L200Bs). They have a similar sound, which makes them easy to compare. The EWG with a LE14A are also more efficient.. by a significant margin.???
However, the 250Ti-LE is significantly different and much more reserved/refined. It's a different sound altogether, but both are really nice...
Then I am going to start calling you "Very Surprised". So was I, actually, but as I switch back and forth, the LE14A/EWG is clearly louder.
marantzfan
...
Got my speaker design book and have been reading non-stop for the last 2 hours. WOW! I never realized the pros/cons of each enclosure type. I am definately going to build from scratch, this looks like it will be a helluva lot of fun...I can't wait to get started.
L200B has a nicer compression driver than E'Wave, but our $9.90 waveguide is several generations of design improvements advanced over the exponential horn/acoustic lens. Jack and I have both converted L200s over to PT waveguide HF.
It seems hardly possible, but the simple E'Wave crossover and HF comp filter are better, as well, though L200B had a somewhat different design objective.
I doubt there's any way E'Wave can compete head-to-head with so refined a 4-way as L250Ti, but some TOTL 2-ways come mighty close; there's plenty of upgrade territory for E'Wavers to explore, if desired. :thmbsp:
We can probably find the relative sensitivities of LE14A vs. 136A over on LHF.
L55 and/or L56 should also be retuned to ~30 Hz for LE14s. :yes:
There's far more to loudspeaker design than most imagine; it's not just sticking drivers in a box. What it IS is exactly as you say, a helluva lotta fun!
Bauhausler
Rational Subjectivist
I had L200Bs here over the summer. There was a lot to like about them, but not the integration between the drivers. Big audible hole in the woofer's upper range to my ear. Just askin' too much out of the woofer's top.
I desperately wanted to pull the horns out and make EWaves out of those woofers and cabs, but they didn't belong to me. I E**yed them off and they're in Japan now. I so do not ever again want to have to pack a pair of those to go halfway around the globe on a boat.
I desperately wanted to pull the horns out and make EWaves out of those woofers and cabs, but they didn't belong to me. I E**yed them off and they're in Japan now. I so do not ever again want to have to pack a pair of those to go halfway around the globe on a boat.
marantzfan
...
L200B has a nicer compression driver than E'Wave, but our $9.90 waveguide is several generations of design improvements advanced over the exponential horn/acoustic lens. Jack and I have both converted L200s over to PT waveguide HF.
It seems hardly possible, but the simple E'Wave crossover and HF comp filter are better, as well, though L200B had a somewhat different design objective.
I doubt there's any way E'Wave can compete head-to-head with so refined a 4-way as L250Ti, but some TOTL 2-ways come mighty close; there's plenty of upgrade territory for E'Wavers to explore, if desired. :thmbsp:
We can probably find the relative sensitivities of LE14A vs. 136A over on LHF. L55 and/or L56 should also be retuned to ~30 Hz for LE14s. :yes:
There's far more to loudspeaker design than most imagine; it's not just sticking drivers in a box. What it IS is exactly as you say, a helluva lotta fun!
With that said, it seems like that in order to have the efficiency I am looking for to run the ewaves off of flea powered tubes, the design will most likely need to be ported...Now, within that category are many interesting options...I am pretty intrigued by the tapered pipe design, not sure how best to incorporate the ewave with it though...:scratch2:
Back to the book...:yes:
Sounds like I need to either upgrade the L200B with a PT Horn and crossover.
The 250Ti-LE while not super efficient and dynamic are really nice speakers. Had thought of building new crossovers to go CC, but haven't gotten to that yet.
So far, I can't find LE14A and 136A there, or anywhere for anywhere. I recently bought WT3, maybe it will provide answers? I found LE14H as 92.6 and 136H(2231H) as 94.14, but they are the ferrite versions and I can't say if there's a performance hit on efficiency between Alnico and Ferrite.
The C56 Dorian cabinets are basically a test bed. It sounds like a good plan to re-tune those prior to cutting into pristine L55s. I don't think they have a scratch on them and they are in original boxes. Both have newly re-foamed LE14A woofers. However, I hate to lose the cabinet volume by sticking the waveguides in the already too small cabinets.
I had contemplated updating L55 with 035Ti tweets, but this is probably a better overall approach.
Unlike your L200, the L200B uses a 136A woofer instead of an LE15B. I wonder if it is less sensitive? I don't know and can't explain it. Clearly, the LE14A/EWG has more upper bass/lower mids and maybe a little more top end. Perhaps that and placement is some of what I am hearing.. I just don't know. The L200B sounds a little "hollow" when compared. Great sounding speaker in its own right, but different.
Russellc
Addicted Member
If you read the DIY forum portion of e'wave, I was one of the ones who helped talk Geddes into testing the e'wave in the first place. We were all delighted that he tested them, and all appreciated his input. Similarly, I very much appreciated Wayne's input from over at Pi speakers, as well as all the work Jack, Zilch, and Skywaverider and many others, put into this project. Everyone's views are coming from a slightly different place, and different opinons about what's most important as well. Welcome to a very subjective hobby! Different view points are one of the things that add value to any project. There's enough ideas here, as is plain from a complete read of the thread, to proceed many different ways. My comments were directed towards those who blindly follow One persons way and defend it against all others, and then refer to the work done here as being done by "clones". I dont see nearly the variation on the Summa thread that I see hear, and maybe that's not fair either, as mostly people are building the Summa kit, while this is more of a "Add this top to whatever bass bin is workable" type of project.
About the only real critisim I'd make concerning Geddes approach was voiced by Wayne, concerning the nulls on axis. Maybe that's not fair either,
as his (Geddes) viewpoint on how they should be used minimizes this problem. I fall into the camp that disagrees with this approach, but admittedly Geddes has forgotten more about Horn science than I will likely ever know!
So unruffle your feathers, I've been around long enough to voice my opinion,
and if some disagree, hey that's fine, that's what the whole project is about,
a trading of opinions. Shoot, again if you read the earlier parts of the thread, I was intent on using the JBL compression driver as I didnt believe the little Selenium could hold a candle to it. Similarly, I never thought the completed project could compete with my tweeked Altec A7s. I tried the Econowave despite this and was proved wrong on both fronts. Shoot, I'd try Gedde's horns if I had the cash! I do agree with him that the B&C DE 250
is one fine driver, and I am intent on trying one of those, but several projects are in line ahead of that.
So MartinQ, are you E'waving here yet? Sorry if I have over looked your particular project, this thread is becoming very, very, large. If not, THIS project is cheap enough to throw on the front burner, I think you'd be impressed. If not post your findings and explainations. Unlike some designers out their, the ones here are willing to admit it is far from a absolute perfect world beater, but obviously is an impressive project, judged on the TREMENDOUS response it has received, and shows NO signs of even beginning to die down.
Try it, you'll be able to afford it easily, and if not impressed I'm sure you could get rid of the parts here easily as well. If you have tried it, well, you already know.
I would be particularly interested in any work you would do concerning The B&C drivers.
Russellc
DENNYDOG
Addicted Member
I found an article on waveguides that some here might be interested in.
http://www.aeronet.com.au/waveguide.htm
It guives a little explanation of the how's and why's of how they work and what a waveguide exactly is.
Denny
http://www.aeronet.com.au/waveguide.htm
It guives a little explanation of the how's and why's of how they work and what a waveguide exactly is.
Denny