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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

djnagle said:
Will not having the resistance of the L-pad make a difference in the sound??? Cheers.
Click to expand...
No. It has no resistance when set to max, in fact.

For flea-power HF, switch to the high-efficiency version of the highpass filter, too, to eliminate the attenuation. It's just one cap and one resistor different.

Well, two resistors if you are really picky about the values.... ;)


Russellc said:
Zilch, do both the Selenium 220 ti and the JBL 2425H drivers give a positive output with the same hookup?( i.e., red to red, etc.)
Click to expand...
I believe so, yes. Check the polarity list in the JBL Pro tech library to be sure.
 
Zilch said:
No. It has no resistance when set to max, in fact.

For flea-power HF, switch to the high-efficiency version of the highpass filter, too, to eliminate the attenuation. It's just one cap and one resistor different.

Well, two resistors if you are picky about the values.... ;)
Click to expand...

Well, it has no series resistance in line with the HF driver but there is the Lpad's resistance in parallel with the driver which will affect the total load impedance seen by the network. I think it's 35 Ohms, so the lpad's resistance when set no zero attenuation reduces the impedance seen by 20%. (6.5 Ohms versus 8 Ohms nominal). You could either parallel a resistor of 30 - 40 Ohms across the driver or change the network values by 20% (higher for the caps and resistors).

I think. This was tossed off in a hurry and is subject to revision.
 
Bauhausler said:
Well, it has no series resistance in line with the HF driver but there is the Lpad's resistance in parallel with the driver which will affect the total load impedance seen by the network.
Click to expand...
Nope. If you check, I beleve you'll find that an L-pad's parallel resistance goes infinite at zero attenuation; the wiper runs off the resistive element.... :yes:
 
Ross, when the L-Pad is turned to maximum, it is exactly as Zilch says. It is as though it removed itself from the circuit. Wiring your crossover according to the wiring instructions with a DPDT switch will give you complete isolation between the halves of the crossover when in the Bi-Amp mode, and setting the L-Pad to max effectively takes it out of the circuit.
 
Zilch said:
It's no secret that I like mylar-diaphragm compression drivers better than titaniums, generally, but "Econo" was a major design parameter here. :yes:
Click to expand...

I'm not exactly a Zilch groupie, but what would be your top driver pics for the the PT-F95HF waveguide (price as a lower priority over sound)?

I've been hanging around the postings of Geddes, Danley, etc so I have some ideas of what is 'good' but I have to balance that with availability and price.

The B&C DE250 comes up quite a bit, but I was going to try the Eminence PSD2002 as I can get it locally (always in stock), it's a reasonable price and available in both the 1" screw thread or bolt-on. It is quite a bit more than the Selenium drivers that are mentioned here, but I doubt I'd find those in Canada and shipping has a habit of nullifying a good deal.

Suggestions?
 
I have both the Eminence PSD2002 and the Selenium 210TI, and I can tell yu even
the cheap Selenium is a better performing and sounding driver.

I had a pair Tyler Acoustics before I even did my Ewaves, they run a pro woofer an
the Eminence PSD2002, using that woofer they are more efficent then my Waves, I
like waves better in all aspects except that the woofer I'm using is less efficent, but
the highs are better with the Selenium.

Other drivers I can't comment on as I haven't heard any except the Klipsch Reference
series but I need more time with them. The BMS drivers are suppose to be very nice!

My Tyler Acoustics are the 2-way Constant directivity horn as well, they are really a
well built speaker, killer cabinets, but the selenium driver works better, I may upgrade
the compression driver in them and use subs to fill out the bottom.
 
MartinQ said:
I'm not exactly a Zilch groupie, but what would be your top driver pics for the the PT-F95HF waveguide (price as a lower priority over sound)?
Click to expand...
BMS 4450 or 4552nd with a throat adapter on the inexpensive 1" PT-F95HF-1 we're using here. That's a fairly big jump in cost from the Seleniums, and there's a bunch of others in between which I have not tried.

The 1.5" PT-F95HF (#338650-001, $113) and direct bolt-on (after drilling additional mounting holes in the waveguide flange) BMS 4555 is my pick before moving up into the TOTL large-format JBL drivers.

We've discussed other drivers like B&C and Eminence in this thread, but I have no experience with them.

[Wasn't aware there were groupies.... :tongue: ]
 
Paratima said:
Too funny! I just called JBL to order the HF waveguides. Talked to Dave. Dave said, "And what's the part number?"

I told him, "338800-001."

Dave sez, "Let me guess. You're probably going to be hooking these up with some Selenium drivers, right?"

I laughed and said, "How in the world did you guess?"

Dave said, "You wouldn't believe how many orders we've had from THAT THREAD on AudioKarma."

"Oh," I said, "I bet I would."

So, maybe they haven't all been built, but there's a whole bunch of "in progress" EWG's goin' on. :thmbsp:
Click to expand...

Ha!

One good thing about this... maybe this will help keep JBL in business during this economic downturn? :scratch2: At least SOMEBODY is buying SOMETHING they make! :thmbsp:

Regards,
Gordon.
 
djnagle said:
I put a pair of EV T-25s on the waveguides for about a minute....they did not sound good at all.
Click to expand...

Neither do vintage University drivers (that look suspiciously similiar to the EV T25s, BTW). Total GAG HACK CHOKE... the response graph looked like a mountain range. :puke: Nothing above about 12K, either. :thumbsdn:

Put the Selenium driver... ah... nice straight line on the graph. :thmbsp:

Oh- and how did I wind up trying this? Well, we see a LOT of the JBL TRX series PA cabinets here in the shop, with blown 2412 horn drivers... the little 1" diaphragm thing, that looks like a JBL titanium dome tweeter sandwiched behind a phase plug. Had a pair come in, that someone had put a University driver in one... sounded like doo-doo... wound up replacing both drivers with Seleniums.

Coincidentally enough, we've been using Selenium DH200EE and D210Ti drivers on these horns, in these TRX-series speakers for a WHILE now, as an "upgrade" replacement... they blow less often, and people seem to really like how they sound in there...

So, EconwavePA? Sure, we've done it! :D

Regards,
Gordon.
 
GordonW said:
Neither do vintage University drivers (that look suspiciously similiar to the EV T25s, BTW). Total GAG HACK CHOKE... the response graph looked like a mountain range. :puke: Nothing above about 12K, either. :thumbsdn:

Put the Selenium driver... ah... nice straight line on the graph. :thmbsp:

Oh- and how did I wind up trying this? Well, we see a LOT of the JBL TRX series PA cabinets here in the shop, with blown 2412 horn drivers... the little 1" diaphragm thing, that looks like a JBL titanium dome tweeter sandwiched behind a phase plug. Had a pair come in, that someone had put a University driver in one... sounded like doo-doo... wound up replacing both drivers with Seleniums.

Coincidentally enough, we've been using Selenium DH200EE and D210Ti drivers on these horns, in these TRX-series speakers for a WHILE now, as an "upgrade" replacement... they blow less often, and people seem to really like how they sound in there...

So, EconwavePA? Sure, we've done it! :D

Regards,
Gordon.
Click to expand...

Nice to hear that the selenium holds up under such use. Ought to be very reliable in our use.:thmbsp::thmbsp:

Russellc
 
Russellc said:
Wonder how many Jbl waveguide ( of this particular model) purchases have been made? I'll wager just the number they have sold would be close, how many others would be ordering this? I could be wrong, but I'll wager there are a number of silent builders out there gathering the parts. Once people hear them, the enthusiasm goes up immediately resulting in posts being made. Others are enthused enough to post just from ordering the waveguide! Dont stop, push ahead, this is one of those really worthwhilie projects. all DIY is fun, but some are really good, this one smacks the groove bone a good one....more smiles per gallon than my first tube amp project! Seriously, this results in a very high end result.:thmbsp::yes::music:

Russellc
Click to expand...

I know when I called and ordered mine last Thursday the first thing the guy at JBL said after I gave him the part number was

"Gonna do the Selenium thing I see"
 
skywave-rider said:
Bloggers, babblers and drunkards from other forums call us "clones."
Click to expand...
We have a name for THEM, too, but we don't use it among the polite company here on AK. ;)


Rex Everything said:
I know when I called and ordered mine last Thursday the first thing the guy at JBL said after I gave him the part number was, "Gonna do the Selenium thing I see."
Click to expand...
If JBL made a good entry-level compression driver like the Seleniums for similarly small money, we'd be using those also, maybe.... :yes:
 
Russellc said:
You men the guys who follow Geddes with their noses betwixt his butt cheeks?
wahhhh!:D

russellc
Click to expand...


Now now.... settle down. You should be thankful there are people out there who are doing the hard work and are willing to share it.

Or what that gratitude and I just misread it?
 
I just got all my parts for the crossovers and I got to thinkin' maybe i'd make me some of those PC boards when I noticed there is 4 caps on the boards----what did I miss???
 
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