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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Vaughn said:
I probably will end up biamping down the road, but I will be fairly tapped out after these projects and will have to wait on the active crossover and amp for the low end. Unless I sell the Valencias:sigh:
Click to expand...
No active crossover required; I'm talking passive biamp here.

The passive crossover splits, and you just run each half on a separate amp.

[Can also be biwired, if you believe in the wire thing.... :yes: ]
 
Whah?

Let me see.... preamp>hf amp & lf amp>hf passive crossover & lf passive
crossover>E-wave and JBL LE14A. Wouldn't I have to biwire?

Is anyone currently doing this? I am intrigued.

Or does the passive filtering happen before the amps? In either case I can't see how you would get around biwiring(but it wouldn't be the first time I couldn't see the forest for the trees!)
 
Vaughn said:
Let me see.... preamp>hf amp & lf amp>hf passive crossover & lf passive crossover>E-wave and JBL LE14A. Wouldn't I have to biwire?
Click to expand...
Yes. I'm just sayin' that since the passive can be easily split, those who JUST want to biwire can do that, too.... :thmbsp:
 
Vaughn said:
No, I'm afraid the W5m's are long gone at this point. One of the power transformers went bad so I had them stored in a friends basement, which I later learned had flooded! Heartbreaking. When I went to check the output transformers neither was any good. I don't know exactly why being immersed in water caused them to fail, but there you have it. Those were great sounding amps, live and learn I guess.
I don't know that they would have been the last word in authoritative bass anyway....
Click to expand...

I was thinking of MY Heaths :D
 
Hi Vaughn, I am bi amping mine with a passive crossover. It is no problem and allows me to use different amps to see which one sounds best on the high and low drivers. If you look at my project you can see how I did it. The only thing I would have done different is to add the L-pad just for those times when I only have one amp....like at the SMAC meeting this past weekend.
 
Ah, I see...

It looks like that CX3400 is pretty cheap anyway, for some reason I thought
around $300 was the admission price for an active crossover.

Is any passive crossover used with the E-wave if you are going to use an active? My understanding is that some shaping is occurring that wouldn't be handled by the active crossover.
 
@djnagle

well, with one power transformer blown and both outputs blown I couldn't see
much of a point in restoring what were essentially a couple of chassis. I was
living in Seattle at the time and ended up trading them to a place called "Ye Olde Electronic Shoppe"(now out of business apparently) for some other tidbits I had been desiring.
 
Vaughn said:
Is any passive crossover used with the E-wave if you are going to use an active? My understanding is that some shaping is occurring that wouldn't be handled by the active crossover.
Click to expand...
Yes, you must still provide HF compensation, and for now, that means retain the E'Wave highpass, as that built into the typical active is wrong for this driver/waveguide combination.

I say "for now," because we've done some work on developing suitable HF comp without the highpass so that the crossover frequency may be dialed through a wider range. That's not ready for prime time, though.

If you combine an active crossover with EQ, you can do the whole deal actively, but that will virtually necessitate also having AutoEQ or frequency response measurement capability to make the optimum EQ adjustments.... :yes:
 
Thanks Zilch, I am amazed (and trust me, I don't use this term lightly) by the energy you and others have put into this thread! And all gratis!

I have to say I am feeling a powerful itch to build these E-waves, I have a strong suspicion the Valencias could be going on the chopping block. I have nothing to lose, after all, since I picked them up for $65!

I just listen to way too much electronic music (which uses the entire audible spectrum) to be happy long term with the Altecs.
 
Should my 2420's get about the same response as the LE85's, and would the E-waves be a good alternative to the H91 in a 4343 4 way design?
 
Russellc said:
Both drivers worked superbly in the 5 cu ft 4647 (4507) JBL cabs. The 2225H with all four ports open had bass, way more than Altec A7, and the mid range punch is excellent. The switch to 2235H gave way more low frequency information, an impressive amount, at a loss of a little of that slam. The 2225H is a great driver in my opinion, I wouldnt feel to bad about having one, plus they recone to exactly 2235H. I have a spare pair of 2225H that I wont be reconing anytime soon, however.

With the 2235H, one or two ports plugged give lots of bass, with my preference to the one port plugged on most material. Tried 2225H with one plugged, seemed to remove the "life" from the sound.

Russellc
Click to expand...

Thanks Russell,

My really bad pic/desturbed below is what I'm thinking of tossing together for
now then building new cabs in the summer using the parts from my 4628B into
some CV D9 cabs I have, there roughly 5 cu ft tuned to 40 hz, so I think the
2225H's should live in there respectably and all the other parts fitting, I'll redo
the front baffles obviously and mirror image them at the same time. :screwy:

(No CV's will be hurt in this hostile takeover, as there are no drivers in the cabs)
 

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Vaughn said:
Are any of you using a low power SET amp to power your E-waves?
I am building a 2A3 amp for my Valencias and am also on track to
build a pair of E-waves with JBL LE14a's and am curious if the 4.5 watts
is going to be enough to reach normal listening levels with them(I don't expect to rock the house).:scratch2:
Click to expand...

I think you may be pleasently surprised, as that combo should be roughly 96db.
The last couple days I've been running SEP EL84 for basically 4.5 watts on mine
with the HPM's which is more like 93db and it actually works pretty decent.
 
Thanks Kegger, I think it will at least tide me over until I can biamp.

Now if my James output trannies would just get here!
 
Hi Vaught, the Behringer CX-3400 has the CD horn HF compensation switch built in. It is not the best com, but I took the passive crossovers off line and used the 3400 with the comp switch on, and it sounded just fine.......not the very best, but damn good. It might be a place for you to start until you work out the passive crossovers. Cheeers.
 
djnagle said:
Hi Vaughn, I am bi amping mine with a passive crossover. It is no problem and allows me to use different amps to see which one sounds best on the high and low drivers. If you look at my project you can see how I did it. The only thing I would have done different is to add the L-pad just for those times when I only have one amp....like at the SMAC meeting this past weekend.
Click to expand...

djnagle,
I intend on trying this passive bi amping. Now that I have a Bi wireable board from Jack, I'll be ready as soon as I get it loaded with parts from PE.

russellc
 
Kegger said:
Thanks Russell,

My really bad pic/desturbed below is what I'm thinking of tossing together for
now then building new cabs in the summer using the parts from my 4628B into
some CV D9 cabs I have, there roughly 5 cu ft tuned to 40 hz, so I think the
2225H's should live in there respectably and all the other parts fitting, I'll redo
the front baffles obviously and mirror image them at the same time. :screwy:

(No CV's will be hurt in this hostile takeover, as there are no drivers in the cabs)
Click to expand...

I believe thats precisley the cu ft of my JBL cabs, and the tuning with 4 ports open is 40 hz. You'll like it with 2225H, the slam is wonderful. It was a winner with the >95 db crossover.

russellc
 
Anyone considering passive speaker level biamping with tube amps should carefully think about what that means to the loading of the amp.

For example in the case where a passive highpass filter is used between a speaker and the output of the tube amp, and the tube amp receives a full range input signal, the tube amp is unloaded (open circuit) for the portion of the frequency range below the HP crossover. Running a tube amp unloaded can be a really bad idea for the amp, and it definitely wastes voltage swing, since the amp will use up its voltage headroom amplifying an unloaded signal.

I don't even want to think what this does to the stability of a feedback amp with marginal bandwidth.

I think most people will have figured this out but I want to make sure that nobody is running passive crossovers and tube amps in a manner that is dangerous or wasteful.
 
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