Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

[Bauhausler]

That sounds like a really good idea Gordon,

Cheap and elegant solution, even if it wasn't "needed" may be a better config anyway.
(Would also provide constant low pass impedance)

-----------

(EDIT)

For those who want to implement this approach, here's an example of Gordons suggestion.

The downside is that if the dummy load resistor is 4X the woofer impedance then the choke has to be 4X the value as well to maintain the same LP frequency.

 

[Bauhausler]

If an amp had problems with the 32 ohm then I'd consider it a marginal design.
Heck that's enough just for the rises in impedance at fs in most woofers anyway.

But to be safe on an amp like that, 16 ohm and 2.5 mh should be a solution then.

Great minds...

 

[Kegger]

Lol!

 

[Zilch]

Special thanks to the E'Wave bottlehead contingent for working out an easy and inexpensive solution for this issue.

Wave ON! :thmbsp:

 

[Vaughn]

Absolutely! Thanks everyone for giving that some thought...

I think I am going to have to read through it again so I
actually get it, I tend to be more of a schematic/visually oriented sort of person.

The good news is I received my James output trannies yesterday and should
be receiving my first LE14a today.

 

[Zilch]

Piano:

 

[publius]

nice work zilch.

 

[Fran604g]

Very Nice, Zilch! Do I see a swivel arrangement in the future? :scratch2:

 

[Bauhausler]

Very nice installation. Are those the cabinets that are $150/pair?

 

[Russellc]

Very nice installation. Are those the cabinets that are $150/pair?

I believe Zilch went with the slightly larger .5 cu ft box. The curved sided boxes for the Indignia project were only .35 cu ft, and they were a little over 150 pair if I remember correctly. I can say that the quality of those boxes is way higher than their price suggests, I was pleasantly surprised. Nice use of the boxes Zilch, very nice looking. And that is the .5 cu ft box Zilch?

Russellc

 

[Russellc]

Whoops, and a slight reassessment of 2425H

I'm starting to experiment with JBL 2425H (somewhat kin to the LE-85) on the Econowave setup. With the <95 db filter, it seems to benefit from a massive "turn up" on the L-pad, and a second port plugged on the 4647 Cabs. Wayne indicated to me that the 24 25H would likely need at least 12 db of compensation, according to his charts posted several pages back. I guess I'll order up some resistors and try a few changes out and report back.

First impressions are increased smoothness, but less extension on the high end. Hopefully the additional compensation will help in this regard.

Russellc

Well, I was looking over some of my wiring while trying the 2425H drivers in Econowave when I notice that the little harnesses I had made to facilitate trading out drivers was miss wired. The miswire caused the two drivers to be out of phase with each other! Once corrected, needless to say the 2425H aquitted itself quite well, with the compensation maybe not just spot on, but dam fine sounding anyway. Now the hi frequency L-pad's adjustment was more like the Selenium drivers position.

Wayne indicated to me the JBL driver would need at least 12 and maybe 14 or so db of compensation to properly flaten and attenuate it. Not sure how many db of compensation this econowave crossover would be for the 2425H, but it doesnt seem to far off....of course this is ear only, no measuring equipment. Always a problem. It should also be noted that I am using the L-pad, and I think the values from Waynes chart in posts past are to be used "as is" with no L-pad.

Comparing the 2425H driver to the Selenium 220 ti reveals something thats been stated throught this econowave thread concerning the 220 ti, It sure does sound good, and at the super cheap price of admission, Econowave with Selenium 220 ti is a clear best buy setup. The Jbl is smoother, and a dam nice driver. The Selenium may have a little more breakup, but its a very nice breakup that serves to add a little sparkle.

Comparing price to performance, yes the JBL 2425H is a super driver, but the Selenium comes so close, and in some terms maybe preferable? Who's to say? ( in terms of the Econowave) The Jbl was around 250 a pair used, probably more than that a piece new. Replacement diaphragms are > 100.00. The Selenium is 42.00, and diaphragms are like 10.00-12.00 bucks. It sounds so good its ridculous, so its just a no brainer to try. The JBL driver may sound even better with the compensation tuned specifically to it, who knows? My best guess would be that it is still very close. If I ever get a DEQ 2496, I'll sure try to find out! Point is, the Selenium is right there with it a a way cheaper price, for this project anyway:yes:

Russellc

 

[Russellc]

My next round of Econowaveing will be tweeking the bass portion of the crossover to my JBL 2235H. On Zilch's suggestion, I am going to build the bass half of the JBL 4430. It uses a 2.5 coil instead of 1.5 and the same 12 uf cap as the econowave. Since it uses the same bass driver in the same sized box, tuned approximately the exact same box frequency, it should be almost spot on out of the box. The zobel should good to go as is, then just a little tweeking of the cap and coil should get me to a better place.

Russellc

 

[Zilch]

Are those the cabinets that are $150/pair?

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=302-721

Also available in maple and cherry, and a less-expensive rectangular version:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=302-720

Group buy, anyone?

Very Nice, Zilch! Do I see a swivel arrangement in the future? :scratch2:

I was thinking that originally, but the way it sits, none is required. The most I'd do is adjustable feet on the front, and a single at the back, maybe.... :thmbsp:

 

[Ballylongford]

Not clear what this is: is this a single driver full-range horn (waveguide) speaker?

 

[RayW]

Not clear what this is: is this a single driver full-range horn (waveguide) speaker?

My guess is it's pretty darn quiet since there's no driver on that horn.

I believe that's Z's take on a "modular" EWG. With the right inputs and outputs you could set that on top of anything and make and econowave out of it.

Ray

 

[Zilch]

Not clear what this is: is this a single driver full-range horn (waveguide) speaker?

It's an E'Wave "module" with WAF. Set it atop whatever you want to use for the bass.

Try different bass bins, maybe. Upside-down L55 comes immediately to mind; I'll have to dig mine out here to show that.... :yes:

My guess is it's pretty darn quiet since there's no driver on that horn.

Nope, D220Ti in there. :thmbsp:

Have to grind about 1/16" off the center of the brace in there, is all.

[Anybody askin' how it sounds is gonna get konked.... :tongue: ]

I believe that's Z's take on a "modular" EWG. With the right inputs and outputs you could set that on top of anything and make and econowave out of it.

Yup:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2315472#post2315472

 

[Duffinator]

I believe that's Z's take on a "modular" EWG. With the right inputs and outputs you could set that on top of anything and make and econowave out of it.

Ray

Yep and a most excellent idea and implementation as usual. Zilchlab does it again. :yes:

 

[dc270]

Just want to get the "early word" out, I really liked how my little L26's E-waves turned out, they make great modest size pro monitors! They don't have quite the bass extention for home audio, all be it neither does the Heresy IMHO, but the do sound better than the Heresy in most regards.

I want to turn my head to the heavans and build a bigger/ nicer E-Wave project. In another thread I said how I was fortunate enough to receive a nice pair of EV Aristocrats cabs with beautiful birds eye maple veneer on them! I have a couple of spare horns and found the 220TI drivers on sale for $26.88 each at PE and nabbed them.

Now my next quest will be to find a couple of 12" woofers to match up with everything here, particularly those older horn loaded cabinets! I would prefere new woofers from PE but do not find any with the requisite high end to cross over to the horns, except this one;

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=290-118&ctab=2#Tabs

But with a nasty spike at about 1800hz, which maybe notched out or steeply rolled off(?);
http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/290-118.pdf

Any woofer thoughts here? I am not totally sold on having new woofers, but did want them as a viable option. I probably won't start the project until way later into Jan but did want to start getting my woofer driver selection under way prior to then.
Thanks for the help.
DC

 

[djnagle]

Nice box Z!!! Looks like I-Robot.

 

[Zilch]

Now my next quest will be to find a couple of 12" woofers to match up with everything here, particularly those older horn loaded cabinets! I would prefere new woofers from PE but do not find any with the requisite high end to cross over to the horns, except this one;

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=290-118&ctab=2#Tabs

But with a nasty spike at about 1800hz, which maybe notched out or steeply rolled off(?);

http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/290-118.pdf

I wouldn't consider the peak a deal-breaker at this point. E'Wave nominal acoustic crossover is 1.6 kHz. You could get more aggressive in the lowpass, if necessary. The glitch in the impedance curve at 2 kHz would indicate there's an issue there that needs handling, is all.... :yes: