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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Klipsch Heresy makeover...

I have read in this thread where a couple of people are going to "convert" a Heresy, or maybe already have them finished them...

Well, a good friend gave me a pair of early black painted plywood Heresy's today (empty cabs), EVEN after I told him that I would convert them to two-way, using a new style CD horn.

I took them out of my car, and immediately measured my Pyle horn and the Heresy. I can't believe how well the horn will fit! The vertical distance between the top of the tweeter opening and the bottom of the mid-horn is about 1" less than the height of the Pyle horn. The horn has enough solid wood to hold well, and it's big enough to cover the entire opening!

This also gets the horn right down against the woofer, which may have to be rear mounted (like original) It couldn't be much easier...

One question - I don't have a woofer for these, so what good "new" cheap 12" would work well in this ~1.5 cu. ft. net volume??? I would expect an F3 above 60 hz with this small volume. (This is a minature speaker to me):D

Richard C.
 
Richard C. said:
One question - I don't have a woofer for these, so what good "new" cheap 12" would work well in this ~1.5 cu. ft. net volume??? I would expect an F3 above 60 hz with this small volume. (This is a minature speaker to me):D
Click to expand...
Gordon and others have recommended the Dayton DC300-8. That will probably mean venting the cabs, but run it in your box modeling program to verify the optimum alignment.

I recently used the 10" version successfully in 0.9 cuft. KLH-17. :yes:

dnewma04 said:
1.5 cu ft is tiny, I wouldnt have expected it to be so low.
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I agree. Verify your internal dimensions, Richard, please.

Skywave has Heresys, and may have tried some other woofers in them.... :dunno:
 
Yes, it's about 1/2 as big as all my other ones...

dnewma04 said:
1.5 cu ft is tiny, I wouldnt have expected it to be so low. No suggestions off the top of my head.
Click to expand...

I measured them and the gross interior volume is (3074 cu. in.) - 1.77 cu. ft....so I figure the drivers will take up at least .25 cu. ft.

I know! I can over stuff them with some exotic fluffy wool, which will double their effective volume! Yeah, that ought to work... :thmbsp:

Richard C.
 
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Zilch said:
...
Skywave has Heresys, and may have tried some other woofers in them.... :dunno:
Click to expand...
Don't have much to offer.
I tried my Heresy woofers (K-22-Ks) in my 2.3 cu ft sealed dumpster bins and they worked pretty well w/ E'Wave crossover.

Put JBL 123A-1s in the Heresys w/ stock crossover and it didn't work at all. Never tried the Heresy box with E'Wave x-o.

Curious to see what you come up with.
 
As usual when I try something new i run into road blocks. It appears parts express is out of the Jantzen 0.60mH 20 AWG Air Core Inductor till mid february. Would it be advisable to wait to get those or maybe go down to the .55mH or up to the .80mH?
 
I had asked about the Simply Speakers kit as this is something I'd want to do myself. Are they good quality? Or am I better off with original JBL parts?
 
Thanks dnewma04, now all i have to do is get busy on these cabinets and wait for everything to come in. Im looking forward to hearing what these things can do.
 
devoid said:
I had asked about the Simply Speakers kit as this is something I'd want to do myself. Are they good quality? Or am I better off with original JBL parts?
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I couldn't tell you, as I have NEVER used anything but JBL factory recone kits professionally installed.

There's a message in that; pretend it's that I'm really stupid, if you like.

JBL 2226H is the industry standard high-performance 15" woofer, some woud say, "World class." Screw them up with lowball aftermarket parts, and you call always pay again to have them redone correctly.... ;)
 
Rex Everything said:
Still loving the sound of the EconoWaves. Really making me wonder about some of the other speakers I have and if I'll still have them :)
Click to expand...

I've been in that state for a while, I know what you mean. Now I'm entering a "Well if this sounds this good, surely a bit less econo will sound better" sort of stage, to find out where to jump to next in this experiment.

It has been stated before that the limiting feature right now is the HF driver. It does a fantastic job and is very inexpensive. I have been comparing it to JBL 2425H by just substituting it in place of the Selenium 220 Ti, with no change to the crossover. The Selenium truely seems to have more hoigh frequency extension than the 2425H. I dont know if this is really the case, or if the JBL driver is so much smoother it just seems that way. Possibly caused by the nice "breakup" the Selenium is said to experience on top...instead of true extension?

I am ordering a few pairs of caps and resistor values to impliment a bit more compensation, ( pursuant to the "Chart" Wayne posted a ways back ) around 12 to 14 db like Wayne said, and see what happens.
The JBL driver sounds great with econowave, really great, just that other than a smoother response, it doesnt really seem to offer any great advantage soundwise in this project over the Selenium.....not yet. I'm not done playing yet with the compensation, so we'll see. Thus far, the Selenium is doing giant killer duty in econowave for a tiny price of entry.

Russellc
 
Zilch, you have both the JBL 4430 as well as several versions of Econowaves,
and I've been wondering about how the HF side of their responses compares.
I have the parts to finish the 4430 crossover clone you outlined in the "4430 Help!" thread,
as well as 2344 horns, and will eventually build a clone of that monitor. Because of that and my recent comparisons of Selenium 220 Ti and JBL 2425H
in Econowave, I am very interested in how the HF responses of these two two ways compares. Overall extension, sparkle, cymbal hiss, air and all that stuff.
What says the Zilch ( in general terms anyway...) on this matter? I could think of no one other than you or Jack more qualified to draw the comparison. I stuck you with the honors b/c his are clones that use a different horn, and you have the genuine article on hand.

Thanks in advance,

Russellc
 
Russellc said:
Zilch, you have both the JBL 4430 as well as several versions of Econowaves, and I've been wondering about how the HF side of their responses compare.
Click to expand...
4430 is intentionally rolled off at 16 kHz. Its axisymmetric 100° horn generates a different, somewhat more expansive "ambience" than E'Wave, and some would argue that's not a good thing. Nonetheless, they have been my "reference" speakers for over 20 years now.

I have built some newer two-ways based upon the E'Wave design principles that are their equal, and perhaps, exceed their performance. As Jack suggests, it's a damn tough call. E'Wave is itself derivative of 4430, originally, so they are very much siblings with the same lineage and similar sonic character. If I had to choose, I'd be asking for the longest possible opportunity to make the determination, another 20 years, perhaps.... :music:
 
A Note About Etched Crossover PC Boards

Before I begin, here is where you find Jack's crossover PC board tutorial:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=191068

A while back I posted pics of my first pair of home etched boards. I just completed the second pair. Got them done flawlessly. And the chemical handling/odor is not much of an issue. Follow the tutorial.

The point of this post:
The second set was installed in .9 cu ft boxes using the 6x6 waveguide.
Before etching, I had x-overs temporarily mounted on breadboards which took up a significant amount of space. With those replaced by tight form-factor printed boards, the bass sounds right where it should be.

Wild!
Thanks again, Jack:thmbsp:
 
skywave-rider said:
A while back I posted pics of my first pair of home etched boards. I just completed the second pair. Got them done flawlessly. And the chemical handling/odor is not much of an issue. Follow the tutorial.

The point of this post:
The second set was installed in .9 cu ft boxes using the 6x6 waveguide.
Before etching, I had x-overs temporarily mounted on breadboards which took up a significant amount of space. With those replaced by tight form-factor printed boards, the bass sounds right where it should be.

Wild!
Thanks again, Jack:thmbsp:
Click to expand...

No thanks necessary, skywave-rider. Zilch and I started this thread with hopes of getting some people to develop what skills they had to build their own waveguide systems, and then advance into bigger and better things. It has been somewhat (maybe wildly) successful.

Crossover PC boards is only a small part, but one that can be extremely fulfilling. But many are now reaching into new areas, which is great to see. Zilch has opened up a new foray into MegaWave, with JBL's new theater waveguide.

In post #3309, kegger mentioned someone should try the P-Audio PHT-416 horn/driver combo. I thought maybe that could be a CheapoHorn (cause it ain't a waveguide) project. I ordered a pair to try them out. Turns out they are extremely neat little devices for $7.99 each. Thanks, kegger! I did the crossover design trick, and when I was convinced they had merit, I went back to Loudspeakersplus to order a few more pair, and they are all gone. Not on the website any longer. Hate when that happens.

But the important thing about EconoWave is that it is still growing. We are still learning, and stretching the boundaries of what is available and what we can build. I am proud to be a part of the EconoWave trend, as should all who have contributed. Lets keep it going into next year.
 
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