Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

[Zilch]

Wanton Caprice?

So, it has come to this, has it?

MegaWave w/2452H-SL and Shade. With the shade 2" in front, the curves are identical. These measurements using the second waveguide, AutoEQ'd as with BMS shade testing, at 30° off-axis, Green:

WPN: Little Feat

 

[Kegger]

Not bad looking there Zilch, not to bad at all.

Any real subjective thoughts on there sound now with a pair running?

 

[Zilch]

Not bad looking there Zilch, not to bad at all.

They're eminently listenable at this point, but we don't have the SSC™ issue fully resolved yet, merely a direction to accomplish that.

Any real subjective thoughts on there sound now with a pair running?

I have two waveguides, but only one fits on the test stand at a time.

I'll have to set up something else to get a full system going, and ZilchLab is jammed with projects right now. Maybe this weekend....

 

[Ice_Cubit]

...

 

[skywave-rider]

any feedback about the 6x6 Ewaves?
Inquiring minds want to know.

My 6x6 update:
Mounted permanently into EV Sentry 100A (.9cu ft.) boxes, fit perfectly where old "tweeter" was. I used super budget 18Sound closeout driver. Posted RTA on that a while back. Works great; good "super econo" retrofit keeping these boxes humming as control monitors. I found the 18Sound drivers to be very consistent in response (I have 4.) I do not see consistency to that level in the Selenium drivers. Imaging is suddenly good and reliable. Off axis, though I have not measured, sounds good. I'll post pics of them in their new environment soon. I made no changes to the stock E'wave x-o.

 

[Ice_Cubit]

...

 

[packrat]

A four-year adventure in PT waveguides thus far, and still exploring new territory here.

E'Wave is not the wanton caprice many presume it to be....

Wow! So I was up till 1am reading all that - well skimming it over mostly. I had seen some of that thread a year back or so but didn't really 'get' what was going on. I see you guys did the L200 retrofit 4 years ago! Do you still have those, and how did they measure? Interesting to see how many horns you tried out, then it seems you almost stumbled on to the $9.90 JBL horn that started all this off! Thanks for sharing all this with us. :thmbsp:

I like that angled cabinet you built for the LE14 - that got me thinking along the lines of perhaps one day building a narrowed (~3 cubic foot) L300-type cabinet, if the upside down L55s work out well that is.

 

[skywave-rider]

I'm using them with 8" woofers. At home I have JBL LE8T-H woofers, and I used those for initial checks. But the 6x6s are now installed with the stock EV 8", inferior to the JBL, but works.

Other people here are better versed in woofer selection than myself.

I think the 90 degree square pattern is good for nearfields, and probably surrounds as well.

The E'Wave x-o is 1.6kHz, but acoustically higher with this waveguide. I think I showed it on the posted RTA.

thank you skywave-rider.

I can imagine a few here in a while having a whole HT system setup with Humongo waveguide for LCR and Mini's for surround
then a 2 channel of regulars in another room.

for the woofer mated with the 6x6, what would be optimal?
Im thinking mcm 6 1/2" or 8" for $25 to $40 each [they used to have response curves posted if i recal, but cant find anything as of late]. the stock xover is if I recal 1.5K?
im not delving into this right now but im trying to conceptualise what all could be done. like I said, LOTS of reading. But im very curious, just havent gotten to speakergeekdom yet [no offence ]

BTW any names for these yet?
Humongouide?
Miniwave?
just kidding

 

[Zilch]

Wow! So I was up till 1am reading all that - well skimming it over mostly. I had seen some of that thread a year back or so but didn't really 'get' what was going on. I see you guys did the L200 retrofit 4 years ago! Do you still have those, and how did they measure? Interesting to see how many horns you tried out, then it seems you almost stumbled on to the $9.90 JBL horn that started all this off! Thanks for sharing all this with us. :thmbsp:

The L200s are still here, and still rockin'. I want to try a version of Wayne's HF comp with them, and the PT-F95HF waveguides. Now that I have E'Wave PC boards to work with, I may actually finish that project.

Last I heard, Jack's pair continue duty as mains in his library. He considers them his "reference" speakers, I believe. It's a sweet combination, for sure, our first real PT waveguide 4430 equivalents. :yes:

I like that angled cabinet you built for the LE14 - that got me thinking along the lines of perhaps one day building a narrowed (~3 cubic foot) L300-type cabinet, if the upside down L55s work out well that is.

Jack brought me a pair of similar upsized EV Baronet cabs he built forty years ago, which are going to be my next LE14 E'Wave project. His pair are shown earlier in this thread. They're a VERY nice trapezoid design that's certainly doable DIY. If someone were to work up some drawings, I'm sure Jack would be more than willing to verify them against his original build and offer guidance as to how to make them.... :thmbsp:

 

[gogofast]

can someone direct me to the posts of ar 4x or 7 (i think) transformation with Ewave? i looked through 30 pages randomly and gave up.:sigh:

what was the wave guide used there? and was it the same selenium drivers with same crossover? i'm ready to work on my ar's. something for smaller space.

btw, for last few months or so, i've been mod'ing magnavox amps, and i really think they match well with these Ewave speakers - dead quiet. i personally think those two (Ewave & maggie amps) are the most enlightening things happened to me in last 3-4 years of my AK life.:thmbsp::thmbsp::thmbsp:

 

[Zilch]

Passive biamping e'wave using a tube amp for high frequencies:

The Issue:

Anyone considering passive speaker level biamping with tube amps should carefully think about what that means to the loading of the amp.

For example in the case where a passive highpass filter is used between a speaker and the output of the tube amp, and the tube amp receives a full range input signal, the tube amp is unloaded (open circuit) for the portion of the frequency range below the HP crossover. Running a tube amp unloaded can be a really bad idea for the amp, and it definitely wastes voltage swing, since the amp will use up its voltage headroom amplifying an unloaded signal.

The Solution:

Usually, it'll work fine, without any thing needed.

If you DO need anything, you just need a "token" load at LF... something like a 30 ohm resistor with the appropriately sized coil to get you near the normal lowpass frequency (say, 1KHz, that's close enough), wired across the input of the highpass section, would provide loading for the amp down to DC.

It doesn't HAVE to be the same impedance as the HF load... just enough to prevent oscillation. And a 30 ohm load will require less current down low from the output transformer, than a normal 8 or 16 ohm load... which will reduce saturation effects, and hence, the total sound should be "cleaner"....

If an amp had problems with the 32 ohm then I'd consider it a marginal design. Heck that's enough just for the rises in impedance at fs in most woofers anyway.

But to be safe on an amp like that, 16 ohm [in lieu of 32 Ohms, above] and 2.5 mh [L2, above] should be a solution then.

Thanks again, guys! :thmbsp:

 

[Zilch]

can someone direct me to the posts of ar 4x or 7 (i think) transformation with Ewave? i looked through 30 pages randomly and gave up. :sigh:

what was the wave guide used there? and was it the same selenium drivers with same crossover? i'm ready to work on my ar's. something for smaller space.

My initial work was done near the end of this thread:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=123113

Fran604g and son's project is over there, also:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2375921#post2375921

Skywave is using that same 18-Sound driver (and a thread-on throat adapter, presumably,) with the $6 JBL 6" x 6" PT waveguide and standard E'Wave crossover. I'm not sure but that you'll have to do a bit of filling of the AR4x tweeter hole to locate that one on center.

XD120 is still on clearance at Loudspeakers Plus for $19.99:

http://www.loudspeakersplus.com/html/18sound_horns.html

The HD120 driver alone is also still available for $14.99:

http://www.loudspeakersplus.com/html/18sound_hd-hf.html

 

[Andyman]

XD120 is still on clearance at Loudspeakers Plus for $19.99:

http://www.loudspeakersplus.com/html/18sound_horns.html

Well, maybe they do, maybe they don't....Here's the text of an email I got from them 1/8

"Andy, Thanks for your order. We only have one XD120 left. The XD125 is taking it’s place. They are $59 each.

Please advise.
David B. Goc
Sales Manager
Loudspeakers Plus"

I emailed them to cancel and refund me the same day and I'm still waiting for my refund. Second email went out today.
Why they still have the promo for it seems questionable????

 

[Zilch]

"Andy, Thanks for your order. We only have one XD120 left. The XD125 is taking it’s place. They are $59 each.

Please advise.
David B. Goc
Sales Manager
Loudspeakers Plus"

They're wanting $27 for the waveguide alone.

[We know what to do.... ]

 

[gogofast]

They're wanting $27 for the waveguide alone.

[We know what to do.... ]

...what? :scratch2:

oh, and thanks for the links!

 

[Clmrt]

The Issue:
The Solution:

Thanks again, guys! :thmbsp:

Implemented -

AKA EW XO v5

 

[Zilch]

Implemented.

Lookin' to figure an economical way to do this using PE parts:

1) Jantzen 20 Ga. #255-060 5.0 mH & 004-30 = 1.081 kHz, 31.95 Ohms, $15.43

2) Jantzen 20 Ga. #255-054 2.0 mH & 004-12.5 = 1.089 kHz, 13.68 Ohms, $9.84

3) ERSE I-Core #266-568 5.0 mH & 004-30 = 971 Hz, 30.45 Ohms, $13.81

4) ERSE I-Core #266-554 2.0 mH & 004-12.5 = 1.015 kHz, 12.76 Ohms, $9.57

 

[Zilch]

...what? :scratch2:

HD120 (if still available) + PE #264-323 on JBL 6" PT, or

Group buy XD125

 

[hhibrownsbac]

Im at another stumbling block here. I have recieved my XO boards from jackgiff and got everything almost ready to put back together(still waiting on waveguides). My question is since Im not using a JBL woofer and when I hook the woofers Im using to a 1.5 battery(+ to +) they move out. It is my understanding that I need to reverse the connections. Now would I reverse the connection to the woofer or to the HF driver? I believe ive seen that you should reverse the connections to the HF but since the woofer is the problem why wouldnt I reverse it? Reversing the connections to the HF dont make sence to me but Im clueless on this stuff.

 

[Clmrt]

Lookin' to figure an economical way to do this using PE parts:

1) Jantzen 20 Ga. #255-060 5.0 mH & 004-30 = 1.081 kHz, 31.95 Ohms, $15.43

2) Jantzen 20 Ga. #255-054 2.0 mH & 004-12.5 = 1.089 kHz, 13.68 Ohms, $9.84

3) ERSE I-Core #266-568 5.0 mH & 004-30 = 971 Hz, 30.45 Ohms, $13.81

4) ERSE I-Core #266-554 2.0 mH & 004-12.5 = 1.015 kHz, 12.76 Ohms, $9.57

Using what you have in the box under the stairs = Priceless

(1.58mh -> 30ohm for 3Khz)

Should I change this? I wonder if I shouldn't cross that high.