Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

[gogofast]

For those using horns ontop/outside of the main cab and have contemplated
building or buying something, I suggest checking your local thrifts for a small
bookshelve pair of speakers, they are usually quite easy to come by, "cheap"
and usually not good for much else BUT recycling there cabs for use.

They generally look pretty decent and easy to hog out the front to mount a
waveguide in, make sure there deep enough or cut a hole in the back so the
magnet can poke out back, remember the cab does not need to be sealed.

Easier and cheaper than building the whole thing from scratch, this one took
me all of 20 minutes to mod and bolt the horn in it. (and the grill still works)

The PHT-416 fit easily into these ratty old things I had laying around, I think
they look pretty nice doing what there doing now.

(Don't mind the rest of my frankenspeaker) :sigh:

kegger, is that a spider web to the left of the speaker?
looks like the spiders in your garage pull out cables outta their a**es. i bet they sound great though! :thmbsp:

 

[Paratima]

JBL Pro Parts:
http://www.jblproservice.com/forms/parts_order1.html
Second item down in this list:
http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2065247&#post2065247
If you want to spray the HF wider, get the last one.

I was using a tweaked version of the E'Wave crossover, it says, which is in my notes. I'll get on finishing that up, as there is considerable interest in the project now.... :yes:

I sure hope somebody's keeping notes! I'm a wee bit busy to follow all this stuff 100% through the development stages, but when you guys get it all worked out, us pedestrians are gonna wanta know. Ya know? :stupid:

 

[Zilch]

Pedestrian?

No more....

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=205379

 

[Kegger]

Sir, what is the middle speaker in the Franken-Keg picture? Have you discussed this?
I do not yet have the waveguide and driver mounted- it is free-balling on top of the cab. I have noticed considerable vibration, and on the latest E/W-woofer configuration, the vibration was audible. A couple of questions to address this, if I may.
Did you add additional dampening to the re-cycled cab?
Did you secure the magnet within the cab?
Would it be necessary to isolate the waveguide cab from the woofer cab and/or firmly secure them together?
Also, what distances (acoustic centres?/physical alignment?) did you find the re-cycled cab/waveguide measured at, in relation to midwoofer, with your various projects? I can't determine from the photos. Was there a common distance, or did it vary with each project?

The middle speaker is a JBL 2118 8" midbass driver, I will start a seperate thread.

With the new cab on the horn in the pic, I do feel the cab does affect the sound
and in a positive way, the plastic on that horn/driver is pretty thin and I think in
bolting it to the cab may help with resonance, I also left that original stuffing in
the box, figured it couldn't hurt and I will probably do the same for the KPM one.

On the KPM I did mount "shock/vibration" dampeners under there wave box to.
(I think keeping the 2 cabs seperate but the top shock absorbed is a good thing)

I didn't secure the magnet, the little guy I don't see the need, but on the wave
you are using like the one in the KPM I could see a benefit and I certainly would
think it "could" be helpful.

As far as distance goes, getting them as close as possible is the goal!

I think your Dynaco setup could be really sweet by the way!

 

[Spectrum77]

Thanks for the info re waveguide mounting.
Looking forward to reading the why and how of the 8" midbass.

I think your Dynaco setup could be really sweet by the way!

Dynaco was LAST week.
Whole different Econo-wave incarnation this week. Initial listen suggests 'next E/W project'. Stay posted.

 

[Zilch]

Dynaco was LAST week.
Whole different Econo-wave incarnation this week. Initial listen suggests 'next E/W project'. Stay posted.

UT, oh, gang, Spectrum's gone OUTTA control!

[This could be GOOD.... :yes: ]

 

[Cosmos]

i bet they sound great though! :thmbsp:

Good Lord, Don't feed his obsession... That's like throwin' gasoline on napalm

 

[Kegger]

My obsession.......

Your the one with all the good speaker parts, I'm just tryin to catch up a little.

 

[Russellc]

I'm sure Zilch will weigh in, but for me the 2225 would be a better match for the
2123H with it's high sensitivity, then yah use the 2235H for your 4430 clone, :thmbsp:

---------

Nope I aint got um either Ross,,

I would either do it electronically with an active cross over, or "borrow" a cross over idea from some of JBLs large monitors that use 2235H for the bass, 2123 for the mids (or other similar 10" mid), 2425H for upper mids/high freq duty (until I can afford a JBL slot tweeter).

Theres only 4 db difference between the drivers. this does bring up another question about another idea: I once thought of using the 2123H drivers in a 2 way with econowave, then use subs. Would there be a problem with high freq compensation with the higher efficiency of the 2123H?

Russellc

 

[Russellc]

I had discussed this idea with rob some time back on the LH forum, but back then it was 2235/2225-2123-2425 on 2344. Would love to hear the input on this setup with a waveguide.

Russellc

 

[castlesteve]

Ok, i`ve been trying to get this project started for a while now and i picked up a pair of L55s off craigslist a couple of days ago. I`ve already given them a couple of coats of dot3 and the bass has improved enormously. I think i will build new cabinets for these drivers as they seem rather small. I am quite suprised by the sound quality of the LE14s. I was expecting a "vintage" sound but they are clear and excellent. The Le20s are not to my taste however and sound distorted at higher volumes. I figure i will build something in the 4-5 cuft range and incorporate the ewave into the cabinet. Can`t wait to get started. Steve.

 

[gogofast]

Good Lord, Don't feed his obsession... That's like throwin' gasoline on napalm

sometimes it's best to just let it burrrrn!
never ending flame!

 

[Kegger]

I would either do it electronically with an active cross over, or "borrow" a cross over idea from some of JBLs large monitors that use 2235H for the bass, 2123 for the mids (or other similar 10" mid), 2425H for upper mids/high freq duty (until I can afford a JBL slot tweeter).

Theres only 4 db difference between the drivers. this does bring up another question about another idea: I once thought of using the 2123H drivers in a 2 way with econowave, then use subs. Would there be a problem with high freq compensation with the higher efficiency of the 2123H?

Russellc

I hear what yur sayin Russ, that there is only 4db between the 2225 and the 2235,
BUT the 2123 is 100db sens, that's a bit closer to the 2225 and probably just about
right with a simple xover and an L-Pad.

 

[Kegger]

kegger, is that a spider web to the left of the speaker?
looks like the spiders in your garage pull out cables outta their a**es. i bet they sound great though! :thmbsp:

It's those darn JBL spiders, they think there so smart they use wire instead of
webs so they think that a xover can be made this way, heck not bad though. :thmbsp:

 

[Kegger]

Thanks for the info re waveguide mounting.
Looking forward to reading the why and how of the 8" midbass.

Dynaco was LAST week.
Whole different Econo-wave incarnation this week. Initial listen suggests 'next E/W project'. Stay posted.

Yes please keep goin, and show us what yu got! We are intrigued for sure!

 

[Russellc]

Ok, i`ve been trying to get this project started for a while now and i picked up a pair of L55s off craigslist a couple of days ago. I`ve already given them a couple of coats of dot3 and the bass has improved enormously. I think i will build new cabinets for these drivers as they seem rather small. I am quite suprised by the sound quality of the LE14s. I was expecting a "vintage" sound but they are clear and excellent. The Le20s are not to my taste however and sound distorted at higher volumes. I figure i will build something in the 4-5 cuft range and incorporate the ewave into the cabinet. Can`t wait to get started. Steve.

Pictures please! sounds like you are on to a great sysytem! Your going to love this! the LE14 is a great driver, eventually you''ll need to refoam.:yes:

Russellc

 

[Russellc]

My obsession.......

Your the one with all the good speaker parts, I'm just tryin to catch up a little.

This entire thread is an obsession!:thmbsp:

russellc

 

[Russellc]

thanks for the response Zilch...

I am just finishing up staining and clear coating the cabinets and the suspense
is killing me...

I must be patient or all is lost!

I can understand the lack of enough patience here, thats for sure. You are about to use one of the best drivers to E'wave, it is going to sound seriously good. Your patience will be rewarded big time!:yes:

Russellc

 

[Zilch]

Ok, i`ve been trying to get this project started for a while now and i picked up a pair of L55s off craigslist a couple of days ago. I`ve already given them a couple of coats of dot3 and the bass has improved enormously. I think i will build new cabinets for these drivers as they seem rather small. I am quite suprised by the sound quality of the LE14s. I was expecting a "vintage" sound but they are clear and excellent. The Le20s are not to my taste however and sound distorted at higher volumes. I figure i will build something in the 4-5 cuft range and incorporate the ewave into the cabinet. Can`t wait to get started.

Several E'Wavers have discovered/rediscovered the unique capabilities of the LE14 woofer variants. Both Jack's and my initial work on EconoWave included LE14s, and we're still "doing" them today.

I do not consider DOT brake fluid a good solution to the aged and hardned Lansaloy surrounds. Rick Cobb (looneytune2001 on eBay) can supply you with the correct surrounds and everything needed to install them.

L55 is one of the products that gave LE14 an undeserved rap as having "muddy midrange." It was simply crossed too high in that product; LE20-1 could not play low enough to yield a workable two-way. By modern standards, LE20-1 itself hardly qualifies as a tweeter, either. E'Wave is clearly a worthy upgrade.

Inverted and retuned to ~30 Hz, L55 is a suitable bass bin for E'Wave (in a separate box, if desired,) sitting on top, which overcomes the "plays to your knees" syndrome. As for building new cabs, I favor a "tower" configuration. It's not necessary to go very large; the Citation 7.4 subwoofer is under 3.5 cuft., for example.... :thmbsp:

 

[Russellc]

thanks for the response Zilch...

I am just finishing up staining and clear coating the cabinets and the suspense
is killing me...

I must be patient or all is lost!

Look back at Page 9, post #127:

I was in full suspense mode here, look carefully and you can tell there arent any drivers screwed on those waveguides, they had not yet arrived! The suspense was killing me for sure!

Russellc