Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

[Bauhausler]

To be more specific, 0.47 uF will give you the most boost, but you'll have to dial your adjustable toward max SPL to hear it, because the cap attenuates the midband, which must be brought back into balance with the woofer.

Actually, in this setup I don't need as much overall attenuation due to high woofer sensitivity. I settled on a fixed LPAD/compensation of 20 Ohms shunt and 8 Ohms series instead of 30 Ohms series/15 Ohms shunt. My mental estimate says the cap scales with the resistor, so I need about 2uf for the same lift across 8 Ohms as .47uf gives across 30 Ohms. .47uf is 42 Ohms at 8khz, which doesn't reduce the 8 Ohms resistor it's in parallel with at all (6.72 Ohms). 2uf is 10 Ohms at 8 KHZ, which reduces the attenuation to 4.4 Ohms, considerably more boost.
I think.

 

[automojo]

Sorry, I thought you meant the E'wave advent crossover, not the original. I doubt it was, a single cap and maybe a resistor for the HP if I recall.

Russellc

No, I meant the EWave crossover. I see Wayne1 preferred his in phase, but I see he modified the original Advent Ewave crossover, so perhaps that makes a difference.
I liked the horn damping idea-except for the rope caulk, I got some Quiet Kote sound deadening (vinyl, not tar based) spray on closeout-$3.99 so it couldn't hurt.
Finalyl got my wave guides. To fit in the Walnut Cab's with the offwhite plastic fillers, they need to gound (bench grinder works great) to just the tops' of the screw hole first indentation, then they fit perfect. I see the 2 top wooden grill retainer square will have to be moved as well.

It would be interesting to know how many are running their Ewave drivers in phase vs out, and if mounting the waveguide on a 1/2 board off the baffle would help, similar to Wayne1's project.

 

[Bauhausler]

Couldn't let this thread go for 24 hours without a post

I've been running the 3-way ewave system:
Active 3-way stereo crossover
6 channels of amplification
Valencia cabs with Dayton Classic 15"
5L cabs with Kef B110 - fed through a notch filter for a 2db cut at 1khz
D220Ti on PH612 WG, fed through a passive 'CD' compensation

I have to say this sounds really fine, although I probably wouldn't build a permanent system around these Kef B110 mids.
Problems with Kef B110s
1) old
2) insensitive
3) need compensation to be flat
4) limited power handling
5) relatively valuable.
6) probably no longer have 2 that exactly match due to age.

I would build up a 3-way system using a modern high quality midrange or midwoofer. I looked at some units at PE searching for likely candidates. Unfortunately aside from power handling and sensitivity, and maybe not even that, you can't really tell what they're going to perform like in actual use. The spec sheets all make them look perfect and awesome. You just can't tell what's going to sound good and what's not. I'd have to take a hard look at the Dynaudio small midwoofers. Every system I've heard with Dynaudio drivers just knocked me out. A small Dynaudio midwoofer with an ewave on top could be 2/3 of a killer 3-way system.

 

[Wayne1]

No, I meant the EWave crossover. I see Wayne1 preferred his in phase, but I see he modified the original Advent Ewave crossover, so perhaps that makes a difference.
I liked the horn damping idea-except for the rope caulk, I got some Quiet Kote sound deadening (vinyl, not tar based) spray on closeout-$3.99 so it couldn't hurt.
Finalyl got my wave guides. To fit in the Walnut Cab's with the offwhite plastic fillers, they need to gound (bench grinder works great) to just the tops' of the screw hole first indentation, then they fit perfect. I see the 2 top wooden grill retainer square will have to be moved as well.

It would be interesting to know how many are running their Ewave drivers in phase vs out, and if mounting the waveguide on a 1/2 board off the baffle would help, similar to Wayne1's project.

The crossover I used was based on the Advent/Ewave design that Zilch came up with. He used the smaller waveguide. I still need to change the CD values. I have the caps on hand, but I need to order the proper value resistor.

I need to place an order with Digi-Key next week. Hopefully they will have the correct values.

I had an audiogeek friend stop by this afternoon. I let him listen to the Ewave Advents for a bit. He was really impressed. Not JUST for the price, but for the sound of them as a speaker in their own right.

FWIW, here is a picture of his speakers

Salk HT-3 in Bubinga

The sound of the Ewave Advents has changed in the past week. They have been running about 16 hours every day. There is NO harshness in the high end. I see no need for foam plugs with these speakers. They are very dynamic. I still like them with the HF driver in phase with the LF.

When I do get the correct parts for the larger waveguide installed, I shall report back. Then I may bring the speaker around to a few others for comparisons. So far, I DO like the results.

I picked up a pair of Wharfdale W60Ds a couple of months ago. I am just about done refinishing the cabinets. I do find it interesting to note that the internal volume of these cabinets are the same as the NLA.

While my daughter was home over spring break, she mentioned she really liked the look of the W60Ds. The waveguide will fit in the space now used by the mid and tweeter. The Advent woofer will also fit in the same cut out as the Wharfdale woof. Maybe that will be the next Ewave project for me.

 

[Bauhausler]

I endorse the use of the W60D cab for ewave use. I parted out a pair and kept the cabs in the family for DIY use because they're so stout. That should work very well. And I like the Advent woofers a lot for this project.

What should we call a 3-way ewave? 3wayve? 3conoWave?

 

[Paratima]

The large Advent woofs are pretty amazing. :yes:

 

[tsloms]

I have been considering building these speakers. Has anyone used the AE Speakers TD15M woofer in conjunction with the Ewave's? I have been looking at these or the JBL 2226's. Are the TD15's that much better than the JBL's? The JBL's seem to be available for around $300 a pair on Fleabay. Is there anywhere else better to get these at? These will be my first horn speaker build although I have built several other speakers.

 

[dnewma04]

Hi t, opinions will vary, but as a user of both JBL woofers and AE TD series drivers, I would consider it a step back to go to just about any JBL model, not that the JBLs are extremely high quality, it's just that the TDs add a level of refinement to their performance that can be a bit addictive. Given the choice between JBL, TAD, and just about any other high performance woofers on the market, my choice would be simple. YMMV.

 

[tsloms]

Thanks, so the AE's are really worth the extra money? I was hoping someone would say that they are only a marginal step up from the JBL's. Do you have experience with the Apollo upgrade? Is this a worthwhile purchase as well? The TD15M's with the Apollo upgrade will be nearly $800 compared to $300-350 for the JBL's per pair. I only live about 30 minutes from Acoustic Elegance. Maybe I ought to stop in there this next week and talk to the guys there to see what they would recommend.

 

[dnewma04]

300-350 seems to be well under the prices I normally see for 2226s. I wouldn't opt for the Apollo upgrade for home use, it's primary value would be in pro audio apps or other very high power applications. I have a pair of each and don't notice a difference at anything remotely considered a sane level. The TD15M will dip down to 35hz with a little coaxing but is most comfortable in ~6 cu foot enclosure tuned to 38-39hz. The other TD15 models will go lower at the expense of a little sensitivity and perhaps a small amount of high freq extension.

 

[publius]

thx for the additional explanation.
had a small accident. right hand temp. out of commission. nothing serious. offline 4 a while to get bleeding thumb under control.

the first econocasualty?

 

[publius]

okay, all caught now.

back in post #4361, wayne talks about the idea of a straight-sided, mid-horn to be used in order to create a 3-way.

he posted an example of such a horn and if i recall correctly it had about a 4" square opening to the driver (throat?). jbl also used to make the 4560bka horn loaded "subwoofer" which was designed to provide directivity down to about 200hz or so, which is about the same as the parham horn to which i am comparing. however, the 4560bka had an opening the driver that was almost the entire area of the driver. can folks talk to the benefits of the two strategies or point me somewhere that this has already been discussed?

7pi midhorn

 

[publius]

Hi t, opinions will vary, but as a user of both JBL woofers and AE TD series drivers, I would consider it a step back to go to just about any JBL model, not that the JBLs are extremely high quality, it's just that the TDs add a level of refinement to their performance that can be a bit addictive. Given the choice between JBL, TAD, and just about any other high performance woofers on the market, my choice would be simple. YMMV.

thanks! i've been trying to get opinions on these two for some time. any additional info that you could share either subjective commentary or measurements would be greatly appreciated.

as a last longshot, any chance you have used any of the bms drivers and so could speak to how they might compare?

 

[publius]

more on wayne's point from two months ago, william cowan uses a danley unity horn to cross to subs at 340hz in his built-in corner horns. he reports subjectively, the sound is the best he has had in his home (and he has experimented quite a bit). his walls provide directivity well into the bass as well, but alas, most of us don't have homes with similarly ideal conditions.

http://www.cowanaudio.com/

 

[Paratima]

Td-15? Made by International Harvester, right?

 

[tsloms]

Yeah exactly, that should go well with an E-wave right? LOL

 

[dnewma04]

No no, this TD15M

 

[Paratima]

Oh. You shoulda said...

 

[Russellc]

okay, all caught now.

back in post #4361, wayne talks about the idea of a straight-sided, mid-horn to be used in order to create a 3-way.

he posted an example of such a horn and if i recall correctly it had about a 4" square opening to the driver (throat?). jbl also used to make the 4560bka horn loaded "subwoofer" which was designed to provide directivity down to about 200hz or so, which is about the same as the parham horn to which i am comparing. however, the 4560bka had an opening the driver that was almost the entire area of the driver. can folks talk to the benefits of the two strategies or point me somewhere that this has already been discussed?

7pi midhorn

On Wayne's mid horn, one constructs a shallow 1/2 cu ft box that the mid driver goes in. All that's important comes out that little square hole, the back isnt left open.

As to why the JBL Sub you show exposes more driver, I would imagine it has something to do with the frequencies reproduce by the two different units, one a midrange, the other a sub. The drivers are similarly partially covered in my Altec A7s, but the back of those woofers also have bass reflex on the back. I'm not sure if the Big cabinet you are showing is ported out the back
(Like Exemplar is ) or not.

I'm looking at the mid horn and have for some while. Right now I dont think its available as Wayne's long time cab maker passed away, and other facilities are being found, hopefully by spring/summer the last I heard.

Russellc

 

[packrat]

No no, this TD15M

Those woofers look amazing, and similar in price as the 2226. Are they made in the US? Too rich for me right now, and I'm now on to my 2nd pair of LE14As, but maybe one day when space and money permit these AES woofers would be nice to try out! Going beyond 'Econo' at that point....