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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

New OLA Ewave conversion concept

All;
I'm working on ideas for a fancy conversion of the Original Large Advent speaker to Ewave. I've already done a pair of Utilities but I wanted to do something fancier.
I decided that if I built a new baffle I could:

* back mount the woofer, overlapping it with the WG and reducing center to center distance

* reduce the center to center distance between the drivers to less than 8", 3.5" closer than if the original woofer hole and tweeter hole were used.

* hide the woofer frame

* veneer the front baffle in walnut to match the cabinets

* make the front somewhat stiffer

* move the woofer's center back about 5/8" closer to the VC of the compression driver, improving phase behavior

In the pic below, imagine that the WG is front mounted on a 1/2" thick baffle and the woofer is rear mounted behind the baffle in those approximate positions.

If the edge of the woofer cutout is appropriately radiused, the hole for the cone and part of the surround can be 7" - 8" instead of having the whole 12" woofer frame and Masonite showing.

This is a little unconventional but with careful measuring it will work. The baffle will have to be removable to allow access to the woofer and crossover since you'll no longer be able to remove the woofer through the front and access through the woofer hole. I considered a permanently fixed baffle with the woofer removable through the WG hole, but this would be difficult with the heavy damping fill in the cabinet. A removable baffle will work fine if screwed down firmly.

To get the WG to sit flat between the rims of the cabinet I had to sand away about 1/2 of the edge - about 1/32" on each side. It's *slightly* too wide as is.

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I put in an order for Ewave parts with PE on Thursday and they state that the PH612 is on backorder at this time. I had them ship the rest of the parts, as I have a set of PH612 here for present needs. I'll report when the ones ordered from PE arrive. It's next day shipping here from them.
 
Zilch, what is the difference in sound with the > 95db econo xover versus the < 95db xover on the HF side. Is it more midrange frequencies on one and less on the other? I am looking to order some parts now for the comp filter.
 
Zilch, what is the difference in sound with the > 95db econo xover versus the < 95db xover on the HF side. Is it more midrange frequencies on one and less on the other? I am looking to order some parts now for the comp filter.
The HF comp is the same. The choice is simply one of optimum overall attenuation to balance with different woofer sensitivities.

Don't worry, it took me years to grasp these concepts; they represent a significant departure from traditional understanding of how speakers work and what we hear.... :yes:
 
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Almost done with my LE14A econowaves, finished the crossovers tonight and will be cutting new baffles this week and assembling. I can't wait.......it's taken entirely too long to get to this point. Sorry no pics I'm at work but will post as soon as they are wired and screwed together. Now, as fate would have it I came across some JBL 4647 bass cabs today in nice shape with good 2225H woofers. At $200 bucks for the pair I couldn't resist. I did see early on that one of the guys here converted these cabs to econowaves right? I looked a bit but didn't come across them. This thread has gotten HUGE! I would use the >95 db crossovers right? The 4647 cabs look to be an easy conversion, at least much simplier than what I took on with the LE14A project.
 
The 4647 cabs look to be an easy conversion, at least much simplier than what I took on with the LE14A project.
Russell's our resident 4647/4507/2225 authority, though several others are working with them.

Searching this thread for 4507 will likely turn up some hits, or go to Page 1 and click on the Member Projects list entries to see what everyone has built. There's 50 of them now.... :thmbsp:
 
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Almost done with my LE14A econowaves, finished the crossovers tonight and will be cutting new baffles this week and assembling. I can't wait.......it's taken entirely too long to get to this point. Sorry no pics I'm at work but will post as soon as they are wired and screwed together. Now, as fate would have it I came across some JBL 4647 bass cabs today in nice shape with good 2225H woofers. At $200 bucks for the pair I couldn't resist. I did see early on that one of the guys here converted these cabs to econowaves right? I looked a bit but didn't come across them. This thread has gotten HUGE! I would use the >95 db crossovers right? The 4647 cabs look to be an easy conversion, at least much simplier than what I took on with the LE14A project.

Search Russellc I've done one from 4647 and so have several others. Rex Everything just scored a pair and I havent heard from him recently, so I assume he's enjoying them. Great buy at 200. With the 2225H you want the > 95 db crossover, if you recone to 2235H you'll need the <95 db crossover. You'll love this one!:yes: I've been at it since the begining of the thread, lots of blabbing on and on....:boring::boring::blah::blah:

Russellc
 
Dayton 12" drivers?

Any thoughts or opinions on using Dayton Classic 12" drivers in Barzillay cabinets? They seem to have the best combination of low and mid extension, and affordability. It looks like they'll play to above 2KHz, although there is a sharp peak at 2KHz and a dropoff from there.

The Selenium D220 and Pyle waveguides are already in the plans.

If I do this project, I'm gonna have to focus on the "econo" portion of "econo-wave"!

Dayton Classic 12"
Data Sheet
 
Any thoughts or opinions on using Dayton Classic 12" drivers in Barzillay cabinets? They seem to have the best combination of low and mid extension, and affordability. It looks like they'll play to above 2KHz, although there is a sharp peak at 2KHz and a dropoff from there.

The Selenium D220 and Pyle waveguides are already in the plans.

If I do this project, I'm gonna have to focus on the "econo" portion of "econo-wave"!

Dayton Classic 12"
Data Sheet
That's great that you're going to put those Barzilay's to work with eWaves!
 
Any thoughts or opinions on using Dayton Classic 12" drivers in Barzillay cabinets? They seem to have the best combination of low and mid extension, and affordability. It looks like they'll play to above 2KHz, although there is a sharp peak at 2KHz and a dropoff from there.

The Selenium D220 and Pyle waveguides are already in the plans.

If I do this project, I'm gonna have to focus on the "econo" portion of "econo-wave"!

Dayton Classic 12"
Data Sheet

Member vette1220 built a set using 12" dayton classic,official ewaver #45
I went over for a listen and they sounded very good. I have a set in works
now using the 10" dayton classics.
 
Yes, I'm contemplating a set of "garage" speakers using the dayton 10 or 12 inch driver w/ some 220ti and the JBL waveguide on top. Or possibly 811B, 511B or eminence 290H?

Russellc
 
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Okay, can someone point me toward the correct crossover to use? I see there are a number of different variations on crossovers, and I'm not sure where to go with it.

(using the Dayton Classic 12" and D220 drivers)
 
A while back I sold a friend a pair of JBL Barons, C38 cabs with D130 and 075 drivers. He's heard Ewaves now and is lobbying for an upgrade. Assuming that a new baffle was cut for the D130 and the port was moved to the back, which of the appropriate WGs will fit on the baffle with the D130? I don't have access to the speakers to make measurements.
Can you mount the woofer to the back of the front baffle? Then you can overlap the flange mount 6x12 WG and the 15" woofer. I did this on my 672 Madrids. See EW project #50. Maybe two smaller ports instead of the one big sucka?
 
Can you mount the woofer to the back of the front baffle? Then you can overlap the flange mount 6x12 WG and the 15" woofer. I did this on my 672 Madrids. See EW project #50. Maybe two smaller ports instead of the one big sucka?

I haven't done the measurements but I think that will work. I can always remove the amplifier adapter panel on the back of the cab and put the port there on a new panel. Since these will be used well clear of a back wall there's no downside to a rear port.
 
Okay, can someone point me toward the correct crossover to use? I see there are a number of different variations on crossovers, and I'm not sure where to go with it.

(using the Dayton Classic 12" and D220 drivers)

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=151281&d=1242968714

and
http://home.comcast.net/~dnewma04/EconowaveBoM.htm

You want the first list, the 8 Ohm version.

I just got a set of the Ewave crossover boards in the mail today. They're specifically designed to fit the parts on that list and make the crossover build a snap.

Good luck.
 
Okay, can someone point me toward the correct crossover to use? I see there are a number of different variations on crossovers, and I'm not sure where to go with it.
Well, two, basically, and which one to build depends upon the sensitivity of the woofers you use, whether they are above or below 95 dB/W.

If it's right on the border, then you buy the extra resistor and capacitor required to build either version for a couple of bucks, and make an empirical determination as to which works best for you.
 
Thanks Bau & Zilch, exactly the information I was looking for.
 
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