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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Bauhausler said:
I have the 6X6 waveguides. I used them with teh standard Ewave crossover and D220Ti. These show potential. I'd like to see a JBL sheet on them to determine the min freq. I see they're crossed at 2400 in the AC15 (I think).
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AC16, actually, which says 2.4 kHz on the data sheet and 1.6 kHz on the tech sheet.

There are probably some curves posted (check my Boston Acoustics thread), but you really need to fire up your RTA and see what they'll do. Skywave has used them successfully two-way, and Jackgiff is working on his home theater speaks doing the same.

badman said:
I've spent a couple hours looking at the thread and am not anywhere near 'complete' on it, it's unmanageably large.
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Not sure what I'd put in a Wiki, but I'll probably do an index, or table of contents, at least.

The best I can offer at this point is that all of the requisite info to build is linked from Post #1, and if you follow the individual project links, there is sometimes specific information in the builder's description, and "Advanced Search" using "Search this Forum" under that E'Waver's name will sometimes reveal more about their particular design.... :yes:
 
Bauhausler said:
I worked on this today and got the positioning of the drivers figured. The woofer will be back mounted and will overlap the edge of the waveguide. I measure the center-to-center distance as 8.5", which is as predicted. that should be a significant improvement over the conventional Advent driver positioning. It had better be. This is a hassle.

I'm avoiding routers for the sake of simplicity, though the Bridgeport mill option is awfully tempting. If my wife's shop had the right cutter in stock I'd be tempted to 'cheat' and mill out a fancy hole for the woofer.
Maybe I'll just have a look at the KBC-tool website...
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When I did my screw-on baffles I used a jig saw freehand. Drew the circle with a string tied to a nail in the center. I was amazed how perfect the circle could be...for a portion of the circle. Then the rest went to hell. I mounted to the front so it did not matter too much.

Disregarding any positive or negative effects from mounting behind the baffle, I like the way it looks, as in the Klipsch stuff.
 
Congrats, look good!

rage said:
Finally snapped pics of my E-waves!


JBL L26 enclosures bought from a thrift store for $10 with the wrong drivers, 220 compression drivers and EPI 10" T/E woofers. Woofers have no inductor and seem to work pretty well that way.

These sound great, really enjoyed the project. Thanks guys!
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rage said:
Finally snapped pics of my E-waves!


JBL L26 enclosures bought from a thrift store for $10 with the wrong drivers, 220 compression drivers and EPI 10" T/E woofers. Woofers have no inductor and seem to work pretty well that way.

These sound great, really enjoyed the project. Thanks guys!
Click to expand...

Nice job! looks great, welcome to E'wave!

Russellc
 
badman said:
Zilch, have you thought to wiki this?

I've spent a couple hours looking at the thread and am not anywhere near 'complete' on it, it's unmanageably large.

Seems like a great project, I certainly have a lot of quality options for wooferage. JBL 2226H would play up to where these want to be, though a little rough on top. I've got JBL 123A-1 and 2213 (123A-3) which would be superb options, however.
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I have the 2213H, which I believe is the ferrite version of your driver. Waiting to see what you do with them!

Russellc
 
Zilch, what would you recommend for protection of the Selenium D210ti (and or D220ti) HF drivers, Since people may be singing or shouting in the microphone. I am looking for something simple instead of using a compressor/limiter processor.
 
skywave-rider said:
When I did my screw-on baffles I used a jig saw freehand. Drew the circle with a string tied to a nail in the center. I was amazed how perfect the circle could be...for a portion of the circle. Then the rest went to hell. I mounted to the front so it did not matter too much.

Disregarding any positive or negative effects from mounting behind the baffle, I like the way it looks, as in the Klipsch stuff.
Click to expand...

I'm going to compromise between jigsaw and router and use a circle cutter. General Tool or Empire has one that will do an 8" circle, and it's less than $20.
http://www.amazon.com/Empire-Level-27993-Circle-Diameter/dp/B0015YLLM6
This requires a drill press of some size to 'reach' to the center of the 12" wide baffle. It's basically a center drill and an adjustable cutter on a lateral shaft. Used improperly, they make a mess. I figure if I sharpen the cutter, clamp the workpiece down and make the cut slowly (500 RPM, .005" drop at a time) on a Bridgeport this could be as good as anything. Further possible improvements probably not warranted: use a bushing and shaft in place of the center twist drill to reduce lateral wander. If the shop had a carbide flycutter or boring tool that big I'd just rough out the hole with a saw and finish it to polished micrometric perfection with carbide. Alas, a cutter for an 8" bore is a scarce and costly tool.
Commence 'boring' jokes...
 
Bauhausler said:
I'm going to compromise between jigsaw and router and use a circle cutter. General Tool or Empire has one that will do an 8" circle, and it's less than $20.

Commence 'boring' jokes...
Click to expand...

Oh, wow, Ross. Good luck with doing that. I have a small version that goes up to about three inches, and it is the absolute last tool I reach for when cutting a hole. I hate using it.

I thought you were going to keep the mod simple so other guys without routers could follow along. :dunno:
 
jackgiff said:
Oh, wow, Ross. Good luck with doing that. I have a small version that goes up to about three inches, and it is the absolute last tool I reach for when cutting a hole. I hate using it.

I thought you were going to keep the mod simple so other guys without routers could follow along. :dunno:
Click to expand...

I wish there was an easy way. A clean 8" hole is not trivial even with a plunge router. The other option I considered is a sloppy-ish hole cut with a jigsaw overlapped by neatly cut veneer to hide the irregularities. I'm going to try a manual blade cutter on some scrap veneer and see what the results are like.
 
Zilch said:
AC16, actually, which says 2.4 kHz on the data sheet and 1.6 kHz on the tech sheet.

There are probably some curves posted (check my Boston Acoustics thread), but you really need to fire up your RTA and see what they'll do. Skywave has used them successfully two-way, and Jackgiff is working on his home theater speaks doing the same.
Click to expand...

I see from the AC16 sheet that they use a more aggressive LCLC filter on both drivers and no compensation on the HF. But you used the standard Ewave crossover with good results.
I finally found the Boston measurements:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=217258

The search functions are not working well for me. I tried several ways to look for 'boston acoustics zilch' and similar search terms and came up dry. If a former CICS programmer can't get it to work the way it's supposed to it's probably busted.
 
jrock7 said:
Zilch, what would you recommend for protection of the Selenium D210ti (and or D220ti) HF drivers, Since people may be singing or shouting in the microphone. I am looking for something simple instead of using a compressor/limiter processor.
Click to expand...
I doubt anything will be needed.

Feedback will be your worst enemy....
 
Bauhausler said:
I wish there was an easy way. A clean 8" hole is not trivial even with a plunge router. The other option I considered is a sloppy-ish hole cut with a jigsaw overlapped by neatly cut veneer to hide the irregularities. I'm going to try a manual blade cutter on some scrap veneer and see what the results are like.
Click to expand...

The jasper circle jig w/router would cut this with ease. Of course I realize it would take a router, but maybe that's the best way. Over on the Indignia thread many holes for the 7" driver were cut. Jack says that cutter is a pain even for the smaller sizes. The larger size would be even more difficult. The main reason I'm wanting a router is the killer thread over on LH forum "Back yard box building." looks like a fine way for one with no table saw to make precision boxes, using a circular saw and a router. A jig saw seems out of the question as (at least with my skills) would not be true enough not to look sloppy, and with the driver mounted on the back of the baffle, the driver wouldnt hide it like if it were front mounted. Oh well! Keep up the good fight!:thmbsp:

Russellc
 
Bauhausler said:
I wish there was an easy way. A clean 8" hole is not trivial even with a plunge router. The other option I considered is a sloppy-ish hole cut with a jigsaw overlapped by neatly cut veneer to hide the irregularities. I'm going to try a manual blade cutter on some scrap veneer and see what the results are like.
Click to expand...

B, here is a little trick I learned way back when I was a car audio installer. Take a scrap piece of material 3/4 thick x 1 inch wide x 8 inches long, in one end drill a hole about 1" in big enough to get a #8 drywall screw through. Now from the center of that hole measure half of the diameter of the opening you need to make and mark it. Now drill another #8 drywall screw through the material on the mark(do not drill a pilot hole). Now take the screw out and flip the scrap piece over and put the screw through the hole from the other side, this way the screw will come out at the exact point that you marked. Now mark the center point on the baffle where you want the speaker hole, using the pre drilled hole tightly screw the jig down at that point , now put the other screw in the other hole until it starts to come out the other side and touch the baffle. Now turn the jig clockwise and the tip of the screw will leave a scribe in the baffle where the hole will be, all you have to do now is keep putting the screw in more and keep turning until you get between a 1/16 and 1/8 inch deep scribe. Drill a pilot hole inside the circle big enough for you jig saw blade. The blade will automatically want to follow the scribe because there is less resistance and if you take your time you can get a really nice and clean hole. I hope this helps.
 
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Bauhausler said:
I wish there was an easy way. A clean 8" hole is not trivial even with a plunge router. The other option I considered is a sloppy-ish hole cut with a jigsaw overlapped by neatly cut veneer to hide the irregularities. I'm going to try a manual blade cutter on some scrap veneer and see what the results are like.
Click to expand...

While easier to cut than the front panel material, wouldnt cutting the hole in veneer be just as tricky to get true? With an already true hole, it could be veneered over, and the center neatly cut out by following the inside of the hole in the face plate as a guide. But with an irregular hole, using it as a guide would only result in another irregularly shaped hole. Forgive me if I'm missing something simple, no wood worker am I! (Yet!)



Russellc
 
Circle jigs for routers are easy to make. Take the baseplate off your router and trace it onto a piece of 3\8" plywood and mark the centre hole and the 3 or 4 mounting holes . Now draw the board out like a long paddle, say 12 to 16" long and cut it out and sand it , drill out your centre hole for the router bit and the holes for the mounting screws (you might need slightly longer screws) and install it on the router. Put in the bit and measure your radius and mark it on the jig, drill a 1/8" hole there and in the centre of your work piece, set the router in place, put the drill bit through the jig and into the hole of your work piece and away you go! I have been using the same one for years, for a differentdrill a new hole.
 
oldskl said:
B, here is a little trick I learned way back when I was a car audio installer. Take a scrap piece of material 3/4 thick x 1 inch wide x 8 inches long, in one end drill a hole about 1" in big enough to get a #8 drywall screw through. Now from the center of that hole measure half of the diameter of the opening you need to make and mark it. Now drill another #8 drywall screw through the material on the mark(do not drill a pilot hole). Now take the screw out and flip the scrap piece over and put the screw through the hole from the other side, this way the screw will come out at the exact point that you marked. Now mark the center point on the baffle where you want the speaker hole, using the pre drilled hole tightly screw the jig down at that point , now put the other screw in the other hole until it starts to come out the other side and touch the baffle. Now turn the jig clockwise and the tip of the screw will leave a scribe in the baffle where the hole will be, all you have to do now is keep putting the screw in more and keep turning until you get between a 1/16 and 1/8 inch deep scribe. Drill a pilot hole inside the circle big enough for you jig saw blade. The blade will automatically want to follow the scribe because there is less resistance and if you take your time you can get a really nice and clean hole. I hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that tip. That's EXACTLY the kind of technique I'm looking for: a way to make a simple tool do the work of a complex tool. There's an impulse to reach for the highest tech solution, but you learn more by doing things the slow way some times.
 
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Hey dudes, my Wired Magazine E-Wave board build was finally promoted last Friday and has been on the front page of www.wired.com ever since. They even edited the picture to feature my dopey mug. Hopefully we've gotten enough traffic so we can finish with the waveguide install video!
 
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