Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

[Russellc]

Bet if there were an available E-W PCB for the CC'd version there would be lots more experimentors... :yes:

I'll show the backside of the one I posted the other day if that helps.

Actually, starring at blank board, I was going to mount the parts on there.
I was going to stand the caps up on end, but the woofer caps eat up the space where the coil goes. No problem if you just mount the coil off board, right next to it.

Its not that many parts here, just two 2nd order circuits, the l-pad and compensation. I hard wired one up with a terminal strip and Zilch nuts, back around the original post about charge coupling.

russellc

 

[BongoPJ]

Question: to sink the waveguide in or not ?

At last, having received all the parts, I'm about to start revving up those old Energy 22's. Just wondering if aligning the edges of the waveguide with the side of the nearby woofer is worth it.

 

[Zilch]

At last, having received all the parts, I'm about to start revving up those old Energy 22's. Just wondering if aligning the edges of the waveguide with the side of the nearby woofer is worth it.

If you have the tools and skill to do it, yes, though with a constant-directivity waveguide, it's less of a diffraction issue than an aesthetic one.

In some of my designs, I have to do it for a "finished" look, and sometimes also to get a grille to fit. Once I have made the patterns, I'll be doing more of this. Measure the corner radius, and I believe you'll find a stock cutter diameter can get it close.... :yes:

 

[Pio1980]

Time alignment issues are also a factor with the relative plane positions of the drivers themselves. I find that the baffle-mounted 6X6 seems to mate well with smaller woofers like the 8" in the AR 2-ways whereas the longer 6X12 WG works better brought well forward of baffle mounting with these smaller & shallower woofers. A somewhat deeper 10"-16" driver should have it's cross-over range acoustic plane deeper behind the baffle and be a better mating with the 6X12. Kludging it all together before gutting the boxes and giving a listen should help determine where the drivers need to be aligned for a more-or-less direct on-axis acoustic center at cross-over freq range.

 

[jrock7]

thanks Zilch, the percyaudio pdf link isnt working, can you repost a working link

 

[Russellc]

thanks Zilch, the percyaudio pdf link isnt working, can you repost a working link

worked for me....or just google percy audio. Be patient, he takes a little while to get back with you, but is a good place to do business with.

Last time I ordered, he emails you an order sheet, order, pay, etc. The first time, I thought I wasnt getting answered and ordered the stuff eslewhere and received it before I had heard back, so be patient, he'll get the job done, good stuff at a little lower price than many suppliers.

russellc

 

[Bauhausler]

Michael Percy has been in the parts business for years and he's always gotten the job done for me.

 

[BHamm]

Time alignment issues are also a factor with the relative plane positions of the drivers themselves. I find that the baffle-mounted 6X6 seems to mate well with smaller woofers like the 8" in the AR 2-ways whereas the longer 6X12 WG works better brought well forward of baffle mounting with these smaller & shallower woofers. A somewhat deeper 10"-16" driver should have it's cross-over range acoustic plane deeper behind the baffle and be a better mating with the 6X12. Kludging it all together before gutting the boxes and giving a listen should help determine where the drivers need to be aligned for a more-or-less direct on-axis acoustic center at cross-over freq range.

I am trying to understand this concept for a future project. So, are you trying to keep the magnet structures on the same plane within the cabinet? And because the waveguide is longer, it needs to be brought out more--equal to the woofer's position in the cabinet. Am I close or not?

BHamm

And then I just read this by spkrdtr: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2918613#post2918613

 

[jackgiff]

Anybody tried JBL 435Be's?

Saw these JBL drivers on the auction site. A bit pricey, but would they make good update candidates for the E'Wave?

:yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:

 

[BongoPJ]

Thanks to both of you Zilch and RusselC
I will assemble and give a listen before putting
my tools and skills to work.

All the best !

 

[Bauhausler]

Saw these JBL drivers on the auction site. A bit pricey, but would they make good update candidates for the E'Wave?

:yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:

Sort of takes the 'Econo' out of the equation.

 

[Russellc]

:tresbon:

Sort of takes the 'Econo' out of the equation.

Noneconowaves (hopped up Econowave) are cool too. As long as they are a genuine improvement. The "Econo" wave version is the foundation all this rests on.

While a set for 100 may grab attention, ( if it could be done) A genuine improvement that sounds better seems to be the logical thing to gleen here, no? The basic e' wave project is sound, and as intended, is an excellent as well as economically affordable way for the average guy to assemble a wave guide setup. It also teaches (if the entire thread is read) about crossover design, and in particular, compensation of compression drivers.

With this done, one may be inclined to use this newly understood technology
to improve their speakers, or apply it to other drivers.:tresbon:

russellc

 

[Zilch]

Saw these JBL drivers on the auction site. A bit pricey, but would they make good update candidates for the E'Wave?

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=24291

 

[ROSSO]

...I did find the CC version crossover helps the 220 ti in this regard...Russellc

Hey - is it possible to put a link to the CC schematic on the Page 1 "Supplements" index? I tried the search non-function, but it was - well- non-functional.

 

[GordonW]

I am trying to understand this concept for a future project. So, are you trying to keep the magnet structures on the same plane within the cabinet? And because the waveguide is longer, it needs to be brought out more--equal to the woofer's position in the cabinet. Am I close or not?

BHamm

And then I just read this by spkrdtr: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2918613#post2918613

Right. Though, perfect physical alignment of the magnet planes isn't a guarantee of perfect time alignment (the dispersion of sound through the air vs. the speed of sound in the paper in a woofer cone are different, for one factor), putting the magnets in-line will at least usually get very close. Usually, to the point where the human ear can't pick up the relative delay, anymore, IME...

Regards,
Gordon.

 

[BHamm]

Right. Though, perfect physical alignment of the magnet planes isn't a guarantee of perfect time alignment (the dispersion of sound through the air vs. the speed of sound in the paper in a woofer cone are different, for one factor), putting the magnets in-line will at least usually get very close. Usually, to the point where the human ear can't pick up the relative delay, anymore, IME...

Regards,
Gordon.

Thanks for the reply GW:thmbsp:

My newest project is a C-36 clone based E'Wave with the LE14A(s).

I'm still gathering parts and data and this helps.

I was considering building a separate cabinet for the waveguide/comp driver so it can be adjusted in or out for best placement. Has anyone done this to with good results?

BHamm

 

[Zilch]

Hey - is it possible to put a link to the CC schematic on the Page 1 "Supplements" index? I tried the search non-function, but it was - well- non-functional.

Done, as variant #4 on the "Project Summary" page.... :thmbsp:

 

[jackgiff]

Just another step.

Sort of takes the 'Econo' out of the equation.

I agree that using 435Be's wouldn't lend itself to being an Econo system. But it may be the ultimate High End Extension of the basic principles. That is where we are trying to go.

Zilch and I wanted to come up with an economical two way speaker system, which would serve as a "starter" project to help get some other speaker builders "doing their own thing." 55 other builders have so far built an EconoWave, and they all agree it is pretty nice. Some, myself included, have even built multiple systems, and many more have said they have more projects on the way. That is heady stuff for me to contemplate.

Many guys have bought instrumentation such as RTA's, and can now do their own crossover design. Using this thread as a starter, we should have people doing some really nice projects. We have seen several EconoWave conversions done by people who started their own threads. But no one has stood up, started a thread to develop the next step system (maybe using the well loved DE250's, or a pair of BMS's), and went for it publicly like Zilch and I did on the EconoWave. Where is everybodies spirit of adventure?

Developing the EconoWave crossover was a fabulous learning experience for me, thanks to Zilch, Wayne Parham's paper on crossovers, and all the input from the EconoWave faithful. I am waiting for someone out there to begin chapter two by designing the Next Step system. Pick your driver, and go for it. Maybe even the JBL 435Be...

 

[Russellc]

Hey - is it possible to put a link to the CC schematic on the Page 1 "Supplements" index? I tried the search non-function, but it was - well- non-functional.

I believe it is in the "early 1800s" I think 1810 maybe? I just answered this a couple of pages back. Basically, any caps value is doubled, then two are used. The 9 volt battery puts juice at the juncture. nevermind, I see Zilch has put it on page one.

russellc

 

[Russellc]

I agree that using 435Be's wouldn't lend itself to being an Econo system. But it may be the ultimate High End Extension of the basic principles. That is where we are trying to go.

Zilch and I wanted to come up with an economical two way speaker system, which would serve as a "starter" project to help get some other speaker builders "doing their own thing." 55 other builders have so far built an EconoWave, and they all agree it is pretty nice. Some, myself included, have even built multiple systems, and many more have said they have more projects on the way. That is heady stuff for me to contemplate.

Many guys have bought instrumentation such as RTA's, and can now do their own crossover design. Using this thread as a starter, we should have people doing some really nice projects. We have seen several EconoWave conversions done by people who started their own threads. But no one has stood up, started a thread to develop the next step system (maybe using the well loved DE250's, or a pair of BMS's), and went for it publicly like Zilch and I did on the EconoWave. Where is everybodies spirit of adventure?

Developing the EconoWave crossover was a fabulous learning experience for me, thanks to Zilch, Wayne Parham's paper on crossovers, and all the input from the EconoWave faithful. I am waiting for someone out there to begin chapter two by designing the Next Step system. Pick your driver, and go for it. Maybe even the JBL 435Be...

Lots of people have built them, but few have the ability, equipment, or desire to do design work. Many are interested in the project, but want to just build a proven speaker that works as it should. some of us are music lovers, not curve junkies. I guess I'm a wannabe curve junky!

If I had measuring equipment, I would be all over it to do the DE 250. Since I dont, I use what I have, and will likely try at least the top half of Waynes 4Pi crossover, designed for the DE 250. Too bad there isnt a thread on some econo-measuring system, even the DEQ 2496 is out of many members reach.
Many members myself included would love some cheap measuring system that would at least be accurate through the crossover region, not to much to ask as this is only a two-way system. Say from 500 to 5000 hz or so. Being accurate out to 18k-20k would also be needed to design compensation.

The free version of TRUE RTA combined with the Behringer mic maybe? As cash comes available there is an upgrade path.

That's the problem one needs something to start with, then something better to make sure its right, which kind of leads right back to the place I'm at. You decide, If I'm going to do it, I'll do it right, buy the best and only cry once. Then you wait for the spare change to do so, and here you are again.



Russellc