Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

[Zilch]

In your present box and with the present tuning, it will be a bit boomy, with F6 = 50 Hz. If you want deeper bass than this, you will have to expand the volume, but LE10A will certainly deliver. See the approach I took with S99 Athena:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1874890&#post1874890

Otherwise, use it as a mid/high box with a sub.... :yes:

 

[Bauhausler]

In your present box and with the present tuning, it will be a bit boomy, with F6 = 50 Hz. If you want deeper bass than this, you will have to expand the volume, but LE10A will certainly deliver. See the approach I took with S99 Athena:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1874890&#post1874890

Otherwise, use it as a mid/high box with a sub.... :yes:

Fooling with WinISD, the LE10A looks like it wants to live in my Valencia cabs for max bottom end. That seems logically unlikely to actually be an optimum enclosure, but I get the message that they want a pretty big box.

If I put them in the Altec Model 3 cabs I should just seal and damp them and plan to sit them on top of some subs. Might not be a bad idea. Certainly makes more sense than Valencias with 10" drivers.

 

[Zilch]

Fooling with WinISD, the LE10A looks like it wants to live in my Valencia cabs for max bottom end. That seems logically unlikely to actually be an optimum enclosure, but I get the message that they want a pretty big box.

If I put them in the Altec Model 3 cabs I should just seal and damp them and plan to sit them on top of some subs. Might not be a bad idea. Certainly makes more sense than Valencias with 10" drivers.

That'll work, but look again, and you'll see that the response vented is not going to be all that different, and the power handling goes up substantially.... :yes:

 

[Bauhausler]

That'll work, but look again, and you'll see that the response vented is not going to be all that different, and the power handling goes up substantially.... :yes:

I was thinking in terms of adding a 100hz high pass filter to the woofer. If LF is not needed in the cabinet, I find that adding fiberglass stuffing can clean up the mids by damping back wave reflections off the cabinet.
This would be cheap enough to try, so I might do it. It's less daunting than tackling the 2-way with the JBL 2414 driver and 6" X 6" WG. In that case I'd have to work out the crossover myself and it might be very time consuming.
For the first time in a while I don't have any ewaves in the system. I'm listening to LS3/5As with the Valencias as subs. Nice tone, but I miss the dynamics and dispersion of the waveguide speakers.

Pictured below are the ewaved Advents in their new home.
Associated gear:
Rega P9 ttbl
Audio Note M1 Pre
Audio Note Quest monoblocks (modded)
Sony CDP-XA7ES CD player
Otari RTR
Accuphase T-101 FM tuner (modded)

 

[Zilch]

That's quite a handsome system, Bauhausler, and your E'Waved Advents make a substantial contribution to it being so.... :thmbsp:

 

[Bauhausler]

That's quite a handsome system, Bauhausler, and you E'Waved Advents make a substantial contribution to it being so.... :thmbsp:

Thanks. The owner is a good friend. We've been working on upgrading him for several years. After I sold his K-Horns for him I found him the Audio Note pieces and the T-101. He bought the Toshiba HD-XA1 player on my recommendation to use as a CD player.
The Fender Jazz bass is not for show. He's an excellent player and a student of the instrument. We listened to Stanley Clarke's School Days on this system and I was really impressed.

 

[borus]

Questions

Hello Ewave'ers

I got two dumb Questions
1. is the crossover connection to the WG's reversed? + from amp to - on wave guide?

2. in testing (Just to see the crossovers work) the wave guide is way loud in comparison to the woofer.

The Lpad (if a clock) is set at about 08:30 when the two drivers start matching DB wise. The (jbl 128H) is just sitting in a bucket right now so I'm not getting any baffle help but it is not even close.

Should I expect the woofer to get much louder after its in the box. I have never had this much of a difference when testing outside of enclosures before. But have not worked with horns.

Could this be right?
Borus

 

[jrock7]

hi Zilch, my econowave is just about finished , I have some pics to post soon, but I got some questions, now that I fine tune the waveguide is there any suggestion on fine tuning the Woofer section, I added a zobel already, but its still not flat in the True Rta reading, how can I get a flat or more flatter graph for the LF woofer section.

 

[jrock7]

Zilch between 550 hz to 950 hz , I would like to get that part flat. Also is there anyway on a passive circuit to further boost the lower end 90 hz to 100 hz , as you can see on graph it dips there and other parts too.

 

[jrock7]

I am using the eminence beta12a -2, sounding sweet so far. I also tried the Delta pro12a, sounding super too, tested a peavey 1208 sps, good to go also

 

[Zilch]

Hello Ewave'ers

I got two dumb Questions
1. is the crossover connection to the WG's reversed? + from amp to - on wave guide?

Yes, generally, when used with industry standard polarity woofers. However, most JBL vintage drivers are reverse polarity:

http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/support/getfile.aspx?docid=241&doctype=3

I don't see 128H on the list, so you'll have to determine its absolute polarity by connecting a 1.5V battery across the driver input posts. If the cone pulls in when battery (+) is connected to the red terminal, it is typical JBL negative polarity, and our recommendation is to connect the woofer to the E'Wave crossover with inverted polarity. In this situation, then, the inverted tweeter polarity is maintained per the standard connection.

2. in testing (Just to see the crossovers work) the wave guide is way loud in comparison to the woofer. The Lpad (if a clock) is set at about 08:30 when the two drivers start matching DB wise. The (jbl 128H) is just sitting in a bucket right now so I'm not getting any baffle help but it is not even close.

128H sensitivity is 91.5 dB according to BB6P, and you should be using the standard (low sensitivity) E'Wave crossover with that woofer. Is that the case?

Should I expect the woofer to get much louder after its in the box. I have never had this much of a difference when testing outside of enclosures before. But have not worked with horns.

You will get greater woofer output on a baffle in a proper enclosure, yes, but I've never run one in a bucket, so I can't say how much.

hi Zilch, my econowave is just about finished , I have some pics to post soon, but I got some questions, now that I fine tune the waveguide is there any suggestion on fine tuning the Woofer section, I added a zobel already, but its still not flat in the True Rta reading, how can I get a flat or more flatter graph for the LF woofer section.

Know that you are also looking at room modes using RTA to measure. Generally, the low end can be increased with boundary reinforcement and/or baffle step compensation in the filter. You'll have to read up elsewhere how to do that; there's plenty of info online, as it's the tweak de guerre presently. You attenuate the midband output to bring up the response in a controlled manner below a specific frequency, effectively the inverse of HF comp.... :thmbsp:

 

[Dr. Beaker]

Hello Ewave'ers

I got two dumb Questions
1. is the crossover connection to the WG's reversed? + from amp to - on wave guide?

The L-pad wiring as shown seemed counter intuitive to me at first. I wired my L-pad how I thought it should be and that turned out screwed up.

Wired exactly as indicated is correct. + from amp goes to - on the compression driver via pin 1. Pin 2 on the L-pad goes to the + terminal of the driver.

 

[Zilch]

The L-pad wiring as shown seemed counter intuitive to me at first. I wired my L-pad how I thought it should be and that turned out screwed up.

Wired exactly as indicated is correct. + from amp goes to - on the compression driver via pin 1. Pin 2 on the L-pad goes to the + terminal of the driver.

Yup, Jack designed the E'Wave crossovers and did a Hell of a good job; they have stood up to considerable in-depth scrutiny in this thread, not to mention providing countless hours of listening enjoyment for scores of project builders.

After all the head-scratching, and there's been plenty of it, we do E'Wave Jack's way, and it is good.... :guitar:

 

[Russellc]

Yup, Jack designed the E'Wave crossovers and did a Hell of a good job; they have stood up to considerable in-depth scrutiny in this thread, not to mention providing countless hours of listening enjoyment for scores of project builders.

After all the head-scratching, and there's been plenty of it, we do E'Wave Jack's way, and it is good.... :guitar:

Boy, I'll say its a great crossover.:yes: Wish more would try the CC version
as an experiment. I'm going to combine it with 220ti and 2213H in a sealed 2.5 cu ft box.

Russellc

 

[Russellc]

The bolt-on D220Ti will go, also, though I haven't listened to that combo yet.

We recently got a look at a Geddes Abbey crossover, and I posted the pic in the "Horn vs. Waveguide" thread on diyAudio.

There are three series notch filters taming the DE250....

found the pic, cant make out the values.:sigh:

Russellc

 

[Russellc]

Zilch, that Abbey filter pic on DIY appears to be a first order filter, with the three notch filters? I posted a similar question on the DIY forum as well.

Thanks,
Russellc

 

[golana]

Russell, would you mind posting a pic of the be9splly of your CC mod, with a schemmo? If it had been posted, I appaulagize, I have done a search. but came up short. Wasn't there a link to a JBL PDF?
Thanks, Mike

 

[gcarlberg]

is eWaveing a progressive disease?


L to R

JBL Decade L16 – refinished cabinets, refoamed woofer and standard xover. Originally I had installed the Selenium 210’s. When I had purchased some 220’s for my next project, I installed one of each and listened to them 2 – 4 hours a day for a week in my office at work. It becomes obvious that the 220 plays quite a bit smoother. These are laying horizontal on a bookshelf about a foot above my head while seated at my desk in a 8 X 8 office. The 90 X 90 dispersion of the small waveguide works wonders in that scenario, vendors are continually amazed how good they sound and I have a steady stream of employees who stop by for a listen.

2nd hand store Cervin Vega cherry veneered cabinets, permanent home for the 210's and HPM60 10" woofers. even using the 210's this is quite a nice setup. They are going to a brother-in-law for a BD gift.

MDF boxes with mahogany faced plywood. LE14's remoamed and repainted with SEM Color Coat #15243 Satin Black. 220 drivers w JBL 2342 buttchecks. (I think this was an attempt to pacify my gonadular urges after giving up on the sonic properties of my 511 horns) This has been my first exposure to a JBL LF driver of this caliber. Listening to favorite albums has been literally like hearing them for the first time. It leads me believe that all they hype about misheard lyrics can be attributed to crappy speakers. Currently these function as my mains.

The small MDF boxes are going to be Mini Indignia desktop monitors for my pc, using the smaller Dayton aluminum woofer.

Plans for the future include, rebuilding a JBL Lancer 77. I am going to keep the LE10, remove the PR and the tweeter, adding the 2342 buttcheeks and a 220 driver. I am going to add two vents and configure them to look like mini 4430's. This will replace the L16 at my desk and I intend to run these Bi-amped.

I want to fill the void in my mains with the PT-F95HF waveguides and some BMS 4555's.

A couple of questions for those in the know.

Why are the inductors used in the LF side of the crossover iron core? Is there any disadvantage to using an air core and winding my own?

Can I use the LE14 xover with the BMS drivers or is there another application/thread that someone has worked out? CC'd?

George

 

[djnagle]

is eWaveing a progressive disease?

for you, yes.

 

[Zilch]

Is eWaveing a progressive disease?

Looks like the bug has bit you; that's quite a nice collection!

Just what the doctor ordered. :thmbsp:

Why are the inductors used in the LF side of the crossover iron core? Is there any disadvantage to using an air core and winding my own?

Mostly because they're compact, less expensive, have low DCR, and work well enough.

Can I use the LE14 xover with the BMS drivers or is there another application/thread that someone has worked out? CC'd?

If you're talking BMS 4555 on the 1.5" waveguide, a Zilchster favorite, I haven't worked up the HF comp for that, but intend to. I use some ancient relic Altec Model 19 crossovers to run them here.

For the 1" 4550/4552nd + throat adapter on the standard E'Waveguide, I worked up a derivative of the 4425 crossover before Jack and Wayne taught us the E'Wave way. Those are kinda cool because they have independently adjustable mid and high levels like 4430 and Model 19. I recently saw the schematic posted somewhere on LHF, I believe it was, so I have it here somewhere.

You've really got to have measurement capability to optimize these various combinations, but that can be as simple as RTA like Jack used to develop E'Wave. It opens up a whole 'nother dimension of DIY fun.... :yes: