Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

[testwork]

And here is how the CV compares with the JBL on the top end. Both speakers are mounted in the same spot in the same room, calibrated to 75db. For these pics as well as the one in the post above. The CV had it's position tweaked for best overall response. The JBL was simply placed in the CV's spot when it was removed.

CV below:

JBL below:

Btw, I actually finished listening to the entire bobby mcferrin/yoyo ma CD. First time I've listened to the entire disk in years!

 

[Zilch]

I'm spending some quality design time with 2226H's little 12" brother, 2206H, recently. Both are proven excellent large midwoofers. If you look at the specs, you'll see 2226H can easily handle boost if desired at the low end. You'll not get sub bass out of them in that alignment, but closing one port with ZilchPlugz™ and using a bit of EQ at ~30 Hz will bump it up some. With 2235H in them, those boxes will work nicely as your subs.... :thmbsp:

 

[Bauhausler]

Is that actual wood veneer? it looks like it is, and in very good shape as well. Have never seen one before.

Russellc

I've had a pair of these before. They're made of 1" particle board with oak veneer. 1 cu ft net internal volume. The port is 2.25" W X 3.25" L.
Nice grilles as well. I restored the last pair and they sounded rather mid-fi. Not really worth the effort stock.
I have a pair of LE10A around here somewhere, and new foams for them around somewhere else. I've measured, and they'll fit.
Maybe this is the cabinet I've been looking for to experiment with ewaved LE10As.
I certainly wouldn't expend any effort on these woofers if I have something better to try.
I'll bet the Altec 406-Z's from the Boleros would work as well.

 

[Zilch]

UT, oh, Bauhausler's having E'Wavin' good fun NOW!

[Nothing is safe.... :tongue: ]

 

[Bauhausler]

With that much HF real estate available, I'd be considering 18-Sound XT1086 elliptical, 10.3125" x 8.5". If the woofer sucks, there are plenty of 10" options. :yes:

Nice JOB Russell!

I've never built a charge-coupled E'Wave. We'll all be interested in reading your review of the benefits.... :thmbsp:

Okay, I'll bite. I measured and the XT1086 would be an excellent fit. Sources I've turned up online for those quote $175/pair for the WGs. Am I missing a preferred vendor? Slip me the info in a folded up Wall Street Journal on a park bench if necessary.

I found the LE10As. They need refoaming (Ugh!). I can make them fit by opening up the woofer hole about .02" at each 'corner. The woofer will lie flush. The PH612 looks too wide but by trimming off the flange I can preserve all of the flare, it will sit flush with the rim and I'd have room to add screw holes to fix the edges down. Looks tricky but it actually all falls together well.

Bonus: The crossover already has a 1.4mh choke and a decent 8 Ohm Lpad in it.
It's almost like they're BEGGING to be ewaved...

Will the LE10A work well in this box? 1 cu ft net internal volume. The port is 2.25" W X 3.25" L.
FS = 30
QTS = .41
Qms = 6
QES = .44
VAS = 102
EFf = .6
PE = 75
XMAX = 6MM
Re = 4.4
Le = .6

Zilch? Anybody?
(Runs hand lightly over jigsaw...)

 

[Russellc]

I'm spending some quality design time with 2226H's little 12" brother, 2206H, recently. Both are proven excellent large midwoofers. If you look at the specs, you'll see 2226H can easily handle boost if desired at the low end. You'll not get sub bass out of them in that alignment, but closing one port with ZilchPlugz™ and using a bit of EQ at ~30 Hz will bump it up some. With 2235H in them, those boxes will work nicely as your subs.... :thmbsp:

Is that the 18-sound piece you were alluding to earlier in another post recently? Nice looking piece.:yes: Does it call for a different crossover arrangement, or does the standard E'wave work?:scratch2:

I can definately attest to the sub worthiness of the 2235H in such an alignment!

Russellc

 

[Russellc]

I've had a pair of these before. They're made of 1" particle board with oak veneer. 1 cu ft net internal volume. The port is 2.25" W X 3.25" L.
Nice grilles as well. I restored the last pair and they sounded rather mid-fi. Not really worth the effort stock.
I have a pair of LE10A around here somewhere, and new foams for them around somewhere else. I've measured, and they'll fit.
Maybe this is the cabinet I've been looking for to experiment with ewaved LE10As.
I certainly wouldn't expend any effort on these woofers if I have something better to try.
I'll bet the Altec 406-Z's from the Boleros would work as well.

Very nice boxes. I am constantly amazed at the number of speaker boxes you come across.:thmbsp:

russellc

 

[Russellc]

Okay, I'll bite. I measured and the XT1086 would be an excellent fit. Sources I've turned up online for those quote $175/pair for the WGs. Am I missing a preferred vendor? Slip me the info in a folded up Wall Street Journal on a park bench if necessary.

I too would like to know the best ( all right, cheapest) way to obtain these unusuall wave guides. Very future-rillic looking.

Russellc

 

[Bauhausler]

Very nice boxes. I am constantly amazed at the number of speaker boxes you come across.:thmbsp:

russellc

I'm now going to visit my last pair of ewaved Advents and collect the JBL Barons they're replacing.

These Altec Threes literally showed up on my front porch, in shipping boxes. I think I know who left them. This happens with distressing regularity, and a lot of the stuff just stays there until trash day when it goes to the curb. I did salvage a pair of nice Marantz HD77 cabs for Kegger this year and I think I gave someone some HPM100 cabs.

Unless you have a lot of storage space and a patient spouse DO NOT get yourself known as 'that vintage speaker guy'.

 

[Russellc]

I'm now going to visit my last pair of ewaved Advents and collect the JBL Barons they're replacing.

These Altec Threes literally showed up on my front porch, in shipping boxes. I think I know who left them. This happens with distressing regularity, and a lot of the stuff just stays there until trash day when it goes to the curb. I did salvage a pair of nice Marantz HD77 cabs for Kegger this year and I think I gave someone some HPM100 cabs.

Unless you have a lot of storage space and a patient spouse DO NOT get yourself known as 'that vintage speaker guy'.

I can hardly find any boxes to buy, and you've got people dropping them off!
I'm sure there's a lot a chaff, but still......on the porch! Cool.:thmbsp:

Russellc

 

[Zilch]

Okay, I'll bite. I measured and the XT1086 would be an excellent fit. Sources I've turned up online for those quote $175/pair for the WGs. Am I missing a preferred vendor? Slip me the info in a folded up Wall Street Journal on a park bench if necessary.

Will the LE10A work well in this box? 1 cu ft net internal volume. The port is 2.25" W X 3.25" L.

I don't have a "back door" for this one. It is a quality aluminum bolt-on waveguide. I'm running DE250 on it presently.

Someone needs to run the box model for LE-10. I tried it in KLH-17, and it worked fine; the measurements are in that thread. I suspect it really wants a bigger box, tho....

 

[Russellc]

I don't have a "back door" for this one. It is a quality aluminum bolt-on waveguide. I'm running DE250 on it presently.

Whats being used for crossover & compensation there? Inquiring minds want to know!:yes: its still a reasonable priced piece, aluminum too.


Russellc

 

[Russellc]

Really nice looking waveguide!

Russellc

 

[Russellc]

Zilch, on the 18-sound site, they call the 1086 a one inch throat, available in either 3 or 4 bolt. Does it need drilled for a 2 bolt driver, like the DE 250 you mentioned?

Thanks, just wondering as you mentioned you used it with the DE 250.

Russellc

 

[Zilch]

Whats being used for crossover & compensation there? Inquiring minds want to know!:yes: its still a reasonable priced piece, aluminum too.

This is in a very early stage, and it's Altec Model 19 crossover presently. That usually means some variant of the E'Wave crossover will work nicely. If I decide to pursue the design, I'll start another thread. I posted it here mostly to show the 2206H action in a small box:

http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/4646a.pdf

E'Wave's been here before:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2191142#post2191142

Zilch, on the 18-sound site, they call the 1086 a one inch throat, available in either 3 or 4 bolt. Does it need drilled for a 2 bolt driver, like the DE 250 you mentioned?

I'm using two of the 4-bolt holes. DE250 also has the three-bolt pattern.

 

[Russellc]

I'm using two of the 4-bolt holes. DE250 also has the three-bolt pattern.

Oh yeah, I forgot it came with extra studs to do 3 bolt. Sounds like the 2 bolt version hooked up just fine. I found the wave guide at 88 a piece, I gonna have to try this one, really nice looking!

I waiting for someone to attack that 3-4 hz peak. I'm sure Geddes has fiddled with it in his crossover, but I've never seen his crossover published, and I doubt I'm going to unless I buy them.

Wayne has it fairly sussed out over on the Pi forum, but I dont see any tank or notch filters, but he does use 3 order crossovers, and while I believe his are 1600 hz or so accoustically, I'm not sure what they are electrically. The Tweak parts Zilch added to the E'wave crossover for the DE 250 appear to lower the crossover point of the HF driver a little. Would keeping the crossover out at 3k help the 3-4 k peak, I assume lowering the crossover point was because the DE 250 could be used this low, not because of the peak?

I've posted over on the PI forum asking Wayne about the 3-4 kz peak and how he handles it, maybe some ideas about this driver's response characteristics and curing them will be revealled.

http://www.PiSpeakers.com/Measurements/fourPi.html Looks pretty flat through that region!

Russellc

 

[Zilch]

Oh yeah, I forgot it came with extra studs to do 3 bolt. Sounds like the 2 bolt version hooked up just fine. I found the wave guide at 88 a piece, I gonna have to try this one, really nice looking!

The bolt-on D220Ti will go, also, though I haven't listened to that combo yet.

We recently got a look at a Geddes Abbey crossover, and I posted the pic in the "Horn vs. Waveguide" thread on diyAudio.

There are three series notch filters taming the DE250....

 

[Bauhausler]

I don't have a "back door" for this one. It is a quality aluminum bolt-on waveguide. I'm running DE250 on it presently.

Someone needs to run the box model for LE-10. I tried it in KLH-17, and it worked fine; the measurements are in that thread. I suspect it really wants a bigger box, tho....

Okay. I've got a brain storm. Point me at that box calculating program that you use.

 

[Zilch]

Okay. I've got a brain storm. Point me at that box calculating program that you use.

BassBox 6 Pro. Free online downloadable = WinISD

 

[Bauhausler]

BassBox 6 Pro. Free online downloadable = WinISD

Okay, got it. According to this program the LE10A wants a MUCH larger box, on the order of 100L.
Something's not right with teh vent calculations. It makes no difference what diameter and number of vents you pick, and the length is stuck at 0.0. What's the magic word here?

Never mind. I got it.