Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

[lico]

I'm running per the crossover schem with appropriate component values for the drivers. I have not tried it reversed. I need to do what Russell is doing and get into the measurement thing. My ears get confused with too many choices.

Same here. Wish I could measure the difference and generate some plots, maybe someday I will.

I have looked at the crossover in Spice for grins before, both ways. If you flip the polarity on the DE250, electrically it should cut the output in the 3.5 KHz range. Not sure if it matters much, but that is where the DE250 has been measured to show a "peak" per this post:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2549189&postcount=4647

Attachments
cross_1: Crossover circuit
cross_2: Summed LF + HF with drivers per spec
cross_3: Summed LF + HF, reverse the DE250 polarity

Now if I could get Zilch to measure the DE250 with reversed polarity then I could see what I have been listening to... In any case, it sounds real good.

 

[Zilch]

Where it says 2225H and 2226H in the legend under the graph, did you mean 2425H and 2426H? Otherwise, the 2225H has nice upper end! Or do I just have no idea of what the hell I'm looking at?:scratch2:

Yeah, that. 2426H required removing the throat adapter and using a different one for two-bolt mounting. That combo rather sucked, as you see, and BMS 4550 plays lower, anyway. 2425H bolts directly on; this one has a Radian diaphragm. You can see it also has issues, at least until somebody establishes otherwise.

All curves are unsmoothed, and what we get for three times the price of D220Ti is apparent in those for DE-250. More curves are about to appear with eWave HF comp, and I'm about to fire up DE-250 high-efficiency tweaked here, as well.... :yes:

Edit:

 

[GordonW]

Woot!

Revision in my next personal E-wave project!

Got a pair of Pioneer HPM-1100 15" woofer frames... had broken polymer-graphite cones, but the voice coils and spiders were in perfect condition. I found out that replacement cones for the Yamaha 3803 15" pro-audio woofer are a PERFECT fit... and they're curvilinear (bell-shaped) paper cones. Same composition as what I used in the EV SRO-15 woofers in the BiggiE-wave and in my Seeburgs, essentially. That, with the same felt dustcap (4.5") that I used in the others, and some sticky dope on the fabric surrounds... I'm in business!

With 3" voice coils, these should seriously kick some @$$. Have determined that they play smoothly up to around 2KHz on axis. :thmbsp:

Regards,
Gordon.

 

[skywave-rider]

Hey. That first look looks good!
Don't suppose you know how it plays lower?
OK, waiting to see what u post.

Yeah, that. 2426H required removing the throat adapter and using a different one for two-bolt mounting. That combo rather sucked, as you see, and BMS 4550 plays lower, anyway. 2425H bolts directly on; this one has a Radian diaphragm. You can see it also has issues, at least until somebody establishes otherwise.

All curves are unsmoothed, and what we get for three times the price of D220Ti is apparent in those for DE-250. More curves are about to appear with eWave HF comp, and I'm about to fire up DE-250 high-efficiency tweaked here, as well.... :yes:

Edit:

 

[Dr. Beaker]

I have looked at the crossover in Spice for grins before, both ways. If you flip the polarity on the DE250, electrically it should cut the output in the 3.5 KHz range. Not sure if it matters much, but that is where the DE250 has been measured to show a "peak" per this post:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2549189&postcount=4647

lico,

I'm using a completely different high frequency circuit than what you just posted. Yours uses the high efficiency compensation. Mine is the low efficiency version. More importantly, My C1=6.8 uF and L1=0.8mHy. This was derived by Zilch back on post #4919 of page 328, and is specific to the DE250.

 

[Zilch]

As you see, I am doing a bit more work with DE-250, running it with inverse-polarity JBL woofers (LE14A is also inverse-polarity), and will report on this shortly, perhaps later today.

 

[Bauhausler]

PE has empty cabs good for an ewave 12" 2-way on sale

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=245-325&FTR=&CFID=14724330&CFTOKEN=16354589

 

[dnewma04]

Very nice find, Ross.

 

[Zilch]

That's one helluva find, Bauhausler.... :thmbsp:

 

[djnagle]

That is a great find Ross. Now if the Z man could sell PE crossovers, they could sell a whole eWave kit.

 

[Bauhausler]

Eyeballing the manual, I'd guess this is about 1.5 cu ft +/- 15%. I wonder if the Dayton Classic 12" would work in this size box.
Gotta go to work, so I' can't run teh numbers right now.

 

[djnagle]

That would be a good one Ross as the DC 12" is on sale for $36.00

 

[jackgiff]

Eyeballing the manual, I'd guess this is about 1.5 cu ft +/- 15%. I wonder if the Dayton Classic 12" would work in this size box.
Gotta go to work, so I' can't run teh numbers right now.

Their sales flyer lists the internal volume as two cubic feet. Should make a nice enclosure for a 12 inch system.

 

[Zilch]

That is a great find Ross. Now if the Z man could sell PE crossovers, they could sell a whole eWave kit.

That would be a good one Ross as the DC 12" is on sale for $36.00

With that driver and cab, we approach Indignia's level of being a complete eWave kit.

It's looking like the BSC waveguide will also fit. I'm ordering up a pair of the KD flat kits; thinking I'm going to roundover the woofer cutout and rear mount it.

I musta been bad or something, 'cause AK won't let me upload pics today. Here's the QSC/DE-250 over on AVS Forum:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17102010#post17102010

 

[Dr. Beaker]

Based on the drawing in the manual, it's pretty darn near 1.5 cu.ft. internal volume. I agree with Ross.

 

[GordonW]

Dayton Classic 12 will work in 2 cubic feet sealed. Not enough air volume for vented, flat response (you'd need at least 3 cubic feet for that).

Regards,
Gordon.

 

[Russellc]

Yeah, that. 2426H required removing the throat adapter and using a different one for two-bolt mounting. That combo rather sucked, as you see, and BMS 4550 plays lower, anyway. 2425H bolts directly on; this one has a Radian diaphragm. You can see it also has issues, at least until somebody establishes otherwise.

All curves are unsmoothed, and what we get for three times the price of D220Ti is apparent in those for DE-250. More curves are about to appear with eWave HF comp, and I'm about to fire up DE-250 high-efficiency tweaked here, as well.... :yes:

Edit:

My JBL is 2425H "S" which is a screw on. I had to use an adapter, so I dont know what it would measure like, but I have put it back in use, it sounds very enjoyable for whatever reason. High end is better than I would have expected compared to the actual curve you show. Interesting, will watch as you proceed.

Russellc

 

[Russellc]

My JBL is 2425H "S" which is a screw on. I had to use an adapter, so I dont know what it would measure like, but I have put it back in use, it sounds very enjoyable for whatever reason. High end is better than I would have expected compared to the actual curve you show. Interesting, will watch as you proceed.

Russellc

In the first graph, what is the green line vs the lime green line?

thanks,
Russellc

 

[Zilch]

In the first graph, what is the green line vs the lime green line?

DE-250 on QSC 446 waveguide using standard eWave HF comp, which provides ~ 3-4 dB more than is required. I tweaked it flat in the second plot, using the values for the high-efficiency variant shown in the legend.

With JBL 2206H in 4646A utility cabs, spec'd to be 96 dB, the L-pad is sitting at 9:00, so I'm now tweaking the standard-efficiency values for use with this combination....

 

[900ss]

I am running 416b's with Wayne P's Crossover and The B&C de250 with the JBL waveguide. i really like the combo. I have also tried the selenium 210 and ended up with a flatter measurement but a coarser sound. i found having the 15" and horn c-c as close as practicable improves the stability of the image when i move around the room. As far as the 416z I don't know what their upper end capability is.

I just aquired a couple Altec 416-8Z wooflers, seeing how there were used the 811 horns, you think they would be good candidates for ecovowave projects? Just not sure that top end will be enoug. I think the 19's are xovers around 1200hz...... but that is with the 416-8B driver
DC