• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

skywave-rider said:
5 Watts?....damn...
Actually I probably never use that much in my apt.:D
Click to expand...
Closed box, 123A and 2213H follow the same response curve as DC300 vented, and handle 17.4 and 25.2 Watts at the same frequency, respectively, producing higher SPL.

Rightbrained said:
The DC300-8 is certainly cost effective.
Is this driver clean in the range it would be used in an econo-wave?
Click to expand...
A couple of eWavers have built with it; Jack'll tell us more next week....
 
Can anyone post a link where I can purchase the QSC 446 waveguides? Looked on their website and couldn't find them. It doesn't look like Parts Express carries them and couldn't find anything in the thread where you guys are buying them.

Thanks,
Denny
 
DENNYDOG said:
Can anyone post a link where I can purchase the QSC 446 waveguides? Looked on their website and couldn't find them. It doesn't look like Parts Express carries them and couldn't find anything in the thread where you guys are buying them.

Thanks,
Denny
Click to expand...

www.qscaudio.com

Products,
accessories,
replacement parts,
then click on HPR 152i,
exploded diagram,
click #7
That will take you to where you can put it in your "cart" and purchase it.

Or:
www.qscaudio.com
Shop QSC, click QSC parts & accessories,
replacement parts, assemblies & kits, click replacement parts
Rplacement parts, click loudspeakers, select HPR series
click HPR 152
parts by number and dscription, select the horn, add to cart.

Takes some play'in to get there, came very quicly and very well packed. Dont forget the gasket.

Russellc
 
Last edited:
Thanks guys! I believe I am starting "all out" with my new TAD drivers so I might as well do the same with the top end. Hopefully they work well in this application. I think they will as Pioneer had several two-way designs using the TL-1601 driver.
 
Of potential interest, posted in another thread:

attachment.php

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3024091#post3024091
 
Last edited:
Zilch said:
BB6P says it'll only handle 5.25 Watts at 37 Hz closed box. Easy enough to find out by closing the ports using ZilchPlugz™.
Click to expand...

Interesting... WinISD agrees that -6 dB in 1.75 cf sealed is at 37 Hz, but says it's still good for about 30 W and 98 dB. Quite a difference! What would limit the power to 5 Watts? I'd think the sealed box would still have good excursion control at that point.

Bill
 
LS3/5Awave in teh works

I'm cutting up a perfectly good pair of speakers to install waveguides again. I have 2 pairs of Fried Model R cabs (6L) and a bunch of Kef B110 drivers to fit them. It happens that the JBL 6" WG is a perfect fit for the baffle after you take a saw to it. I've been running the B110/2414H/JBL 6" combo in another configuration and I like it. Now I want to get it all in one box. WINISD says the B110 is good for about 70 hz in that box. That's good enough for a satellite speaker and maybe enough for desktop use.

I'll intially use the JBL AC16 passive crossover on the top and a Rane AC22 active crossover on the bottom, biamping. Eventually I'll add a 100 hz high pass on the B110 and add an active sub to the mix.

This should be interesting.

Pix will be blurry if at all. My camera is 'missing' and the phonecam is low res.

I need to paint the baffles and work up some terminals, but I should be running tonight with them.

*** EDIT ***

Won't be running tonight. Decided to fancy up the cabinets a bit and that will take time. Might get them assembled Monday. Gonna take a walk now while it's still a 74 degree September day.

*** EDIT ***

Got one running, although the paint isn't dry.

attachment.php
 

Attachments

  • DSC00006.jpg
    DSC00006.jpg
    60.6 KB · Views: 646
Last edited:
badmusician said:
What would limit the power to 5 Watts? I'd think the sealed box would still have good excursion control at that point.
Click to expand...
Quoting from the manual:

Steady-State versus Peak

The excursion-limited plot line represents the driver diaphragm being displaced to its linear excursion limit (Xmax). In this case Xmax is reached only at the peak of the displacement and yet acoustic power must be calculated from an RMS level because this more closely represents the way our hearing perceives loudness. So the maximum acoustic power formulas effectively reduce the excursion level to a “steady-state” or RMS level.

Direct comparisons cannot be made between the Maximum Acoustic Power graph and the Cone Displacement graph because the latter represents only peak displacement. For example, the transition from being thermally-limited to being excursion-limited in the Maximum Acoustic Power graph does not coincide with the point where Xmax is reached on the Cone Displacement graph. In addition, the Cone Displacement graph assumes that a constant input voltage is present while the Maximum Acoustic Power graph allows the input voltage to change as needed to maintain a constant excursion.
Click to expand...

Copyright 1992-2005 by Harris Technologies, Inc.

The maximum electrical power is derived from the maximum acoustic power....
 
Zilch said:
Quoting from the manual:

The excursion-limited plot line represents the driver diaphragm being displaced to its linear excursion limit (Xmax). In this case Xmax is reached only at the peak of the displacement and yet acoustic power must be calculated from an RMS level because this more closely represents the way our hearing perceives loudness. So the maximum acoustic power formulas effectively reduce the excursion level to a “steady-state” or RMS level.

Direct comparisons cannot be made between the Maximum Acoustic Power graph and the Cone Displacement graph because the latter represents only peak displacement. For example, the transition from being thermally-limited to being excursion-limited in the Maximum Acoustic Power graph does not coincide with the point where Xmax is reached on the Cone Displacement graph. In addition, the Cone Displacement graph assumes that a constant input voltage is present while the Maximum Acoustic Power graph allows the input voltage to change as needed to maintain a constant excursion.

Copyright 1992-2005 by Harris Technologies, Inc.

The maximum electrical power is derived from the maximum acoustic power....
Click to expand...

Clear as mud to me.

I see a break point between the thermal and excursion limits at about 65 Hz, well above max excursion, and a corresponding break point in WinISD's Max SPL graph (assuming Acoustic Power and SPL are related with SPL dependent on distance and AP being the total radiated power), so I've got that going for me.

What I don't see is anywhere that a 5W input could get the driver to max excursion in this sealed box. I see cone excursion as essentially flat with constant power from 30 Hz on down, which I would expect from a sealed box.

So, to repeat the question, what's the limiting factor? Thermal, excursion , or something else? Or is WinISD ignoring something? I'm not trying to be contrary, just trying to make sense of of it all.
 
Excursion.

The power is acoustic power converted to RMS electrical power, not peak.

Whether we might ignore it or not withstanding, it is indicative of the relative power-handling capacities of the various drivers under consideration.... :dunno:
 
Bumped because I added a pic.
I now have both channels running. I have an active HP/LP crossover running on the B110s. 200 hz - 2500 hz. I'm running acrive woofers from 200 hz down - AR3 woofers and cabs run from an Accuphase P-300 and Rane AC22. The AR3 cabs are about the right height to act as stands for the sats.
Still fiddling with the balance, which is complicated with 6 channels of amplification. It's pretty well dialed in by ear but tomorrow I'll drag out the mic and see how close it measures.
It looks like the B110s will need the notch filter that most crossovers for them put in at 1250 hz. I'm doing that with a parametric EQ at the moment but I'll incorporate it into the passive crossover ultimately.
Sounds pretty good. The B110 is plenty dynamic if you keep it out of the low bass region, which uses up its xmax while producing nothing.
Giving them a workout right now with some Pavement...

Bauhausler said:
I'm cutting up a perfectly good pair of speakers to install waveguides again. I have 2 pairs of Fried Model R cabs (6L) and a bunch of Kef B110 drivers to fit them. It happens that the JBL 6" WG is a perfect fit for the baffle after you take a saw to it. I've been running the B110/2414H/JBL 6" combo in another configuration and I like it. Now I want to get it all in one box. WINISD says the B110 is good for about 70 hz in that box. That's good enough for a satellite speaker and maybe enough for desktop use.

I'll intially use the JBL AC16 passive crossover on the top and a Rane AC22 active crossover on the bottom, biamping. Eventually I'll add a 100 hz high pass on the B110 and add an active sub to the mix.

This should be interesting.

Pix will be blurry if at all. My camera is 'missing' and the phonecam is low res.

I need to paint the baffles and work up some terminals, but I should be running tonight with them.

*** EDIT ***

Won't be running tonight. Decided to fancy up the cabinets a bit and that will take time. Might get them assembled Monday. Gonna take a walk now while it's still a 74 degree September day.

*** EDIT ***

Got one running, although the paint isn't dry.

attachment.php
Click to expand...
 
Flush Mounted Baffle

I got one done, though PE shorted me some wood screws....grrrr.
Flush mounted the baffle with 3/8" reveal along sides...will look good painted flat black in there. Will oil the baffle and have the rest of the box sprayed with truck bed-liner.

Baffle will be gasketed for screw off.

My suggestion after doing one. Make pilot holes with a 1/16" bit because 1/8" is too close to the screw size. One screw hole stripped-out because of this and perhaps the screw hit a void as well.
attachment.php

attachment.php

attachment.php
 

Attachments

  • IMG_3646.jpg
    IMG_3646.jpg
    44.4 KB · Views: 275
  • IMG_3649.jpg
    IMG_3649.jpg
    42.1 KB · Views: 276
  • IMG_3653.jpg
    IMG_3653.jpg
    32.2 KB · Views: 278
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom