dnewma04
The Healer
I wonder if there is a Audioxpress feature coming up?
Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker
- Thread starter Zilch
- Start date
I wonder if there is a Audioxpress feature coming up?
Bauhausler
Rational Subjectivist
I have a pair of Val cabs as well. The horn opening gives you 9" of vertical height. Not much room for a waveguide that will go down low enough to match a 15". My best plan was to find a 12" that will work in 6.5 cu ft ported and make a new baffle board for that and the PH612. Haven't done it yet because similar performance is available in much smaller packages. Those look like nice cabs, though.
Another thought was a 3-way in this box, but then you need a new baffle plus complications from the cabinet's internal structure.
I put Dayton Classic 15" in my cabs and they respond beautifully to this loading with 1 port Zilchplugged, just as theory suggests.
Not Vals, apparently, rather, one of the similars Altec made, perhaps; here's Andyman's:
With yours and TAD woofers, I'd be doing whatever it takes to get the QSC/DE250 combo in there.... :yes:
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ROSSO
Active Member
I think that the model with the furniture-like top (like Andyman's) is the 846A Valencia and the more cube-like model with the protruding LF baffle and round ports is the 846B Valencia.
Yes Master...
Any resolution on the QSC/DE250 x-over?
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Bauhausler
Rational Subjectivist
Okay, I'll go there.
The QSC/B&C combo is getting a lot of talk but I'm still not sure what its advantages are VS the D220Ti/PH612. Since it's wider, taller and costs more than double, there ought to be some significant advantages to justify it.
I'm not talking about 'sounds better to me'. I'm totally willing to give it a spin if someone can point out why.
The QSC/B&C combo is getting a lot of talk but I'm still not sure what its advantages are VS the D220Ti/PH612. Since it's wider, taller and costs more than double, there ought to be some significant advantages to justify it.
I'm not talking about 'sounds better to me'. I'm totally willing to give it a spin if someone can point out why.
I took some preliminary stabs at it, but Jack is the eWave crossover designer, and we're relying upon him to get it "right" for us. :yes:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3035108#post3035108
It's an upgrade option that eWavers have been desiring. Brandon's using the less-expensive DE160 and suggesting that it may also be a suitable driver.
As I mentioned above, the QSC incorporates a substantial roundover at the mouth termination, also an advantage. Viewed strictly as waveguide, the measurements suggest that the standard eWave performs as well, but the QSC has an improved transition at the baffle. The price for that is a 1.75" increased center-to-center distance between the drivers, amd we're looking closely at the consequences....
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Russellc
Addicted Member
By the way Zilch, the resistor changes to the basic E'wave crossovers isnt bad at all.......
I find it to be a substantial improvement over the Selenium driver in terms of smoothness and transparency. That said, the basic Econowave w/Selenium 220 ti I have is no slouch to say the least. One of the better performing HE tops one could hope for, and both sides w/crossovers at 200? Its a winner no doubt. The DE 250 is just a better, and more expensive driver. It should sound better....and it does, just not quite as refined crossoverwise just yet, but that'll happen in good time.
I asked brandon about that, and he said the lobe is great as is. It was indicated that it could be increased, but there wasnt a need, and then that change could necessitate others, and doesnt seem to be a problem. I guess all will be known in good time.
russellc
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jackgiff
Well-Known Member
The last few days have been an absolute disaster for me. I had planned to rebuild the baffles on my PE trapezoid cabinets, and add some improvements at the same time. After buying MDF and a full days time cutting and routing, when the time came to assemble them, I discovered that I had cut the woofer hole too big. I almost started over, but then decided that my project was to figure out if the QSC and B&C DE250 combo was suitable for the PE cabinet. So I spent some time removing the screw in inserts from one of the baffles, and since it was drilled completely through the baffle for the inserts, I drilled the other baffle and installed hurricane nuts. They were then assembled and made ready for testing. Now they are definitely "Ugly Betty's", but at least they work. They are shown ready for testing.
Starting the testing today, the Crown amplifier kept giving out on one channel. Finally after swapping all the component leads around to find the guilty culprit, it was determined that the fault lay with the preamp being used. I have another Nikko preamp, so it was swapped, and now the system plays great.
Deciding where to start was easy, I figured to use a standard EconoWave crossover, so I checked my stock of built crossovers. All of them are built for JBL LE14A's. Well, two of them were complete with L-Pads, so they filled the bill. Some parts changes will be necessary obviously, but from the first look, the standard E-Wave Xover will be darned close. The third picture is the FR with a LE14A crossover.
Since I had done some time delay measurements before on one the cabinets, I thought maybe checking for the vertical nulls as shown by Wayne Parham would be interesting. Finding where the nulls are was simple, but actually measuring the angles is not that easy for someone as poorly equipped as me. Using a very small protractor and a process known as SWAG, the nulls are roughly 10 degrees below the center of the two drivers, and roughly 40 degrees above, as near as I can measure. This would put them above and below most listening setups, so the increased gap between drivers doesn't seem like it would be a huge problem. I may play some more with time delay to see if they could be set higher or lower easily and predictably.
Now I can get to determining the final crossover values for the DE 250.
The Dayton DC300 woofers really sound quite good in the 1.72 cubic feet, despite their FR showings. Remember the testing is done in a very harsh environment. The B&C DE 250 sounds a bit smoother than the Selenium D220Ti. Perhaps less bright is a better description, And of course it's response falls off steeply above 16 KHz, which may account for some of that.
Altogether, it should be an extremely nice package upon completion.
Starting the testing today, the Crown amplifier kept giving out on one channel. Finally after swapping all the component leads around to find the guilty culprit, it was determined that the fault lay with the preamp being used. I have another Nikko preamp, so it was swapped, and now the system plays great.
Deciding where to start was easy, I figured to use a standard EconoWave crossover, so I checked my stock of built crossovers. All of them are built for JBL LE14A's. Well, two of them were complete with L-Pads, so they filled the bill. Some parts changes will be necessary obviously, but from the first look, the standard E-Wave Xover will be darned close. The third picture is the FR with a LE14A crossover.
Since I had done some time delay measurements before on one the cabinets, I thought maybe checking for the vertical nulls as shown by Wayne Parham would be interesting. Finding where the nulls are was simple, but actually measuring the angles is not that easy for someone as poorly equipped as me. Using a very small protractor and a process known as SWAG, the nulls are roughly 10 degrees below the center of the two drivers, and roughly 40 degrees above, as near as I can measure. This would put them above and below most listening setups, so the increased gap between drivers doesn't seem like it would be a huge problem. I may play some more with time delay to see if they could be set higher or lower easily and predictably.
Now I can get to determining the final crossover values for the DE 250.
The Dayton DC300 woofers really sound quite good in the 1.72 cubic feet, despite their FR showings. Remember the testing is done in a very harsh environment. The B&C DE 250 sounds a bit smoother than the Selenium D220Ti. Perhaps less bright is a better description, And of course it's response falls off steeply above 16 KHz, which may account for some of that.
Altogether, it should be an extremely nice package upon completion.
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DENNYDOG
Addicted Member
I'm sure it's been stated before in this thread but what is the outside dim. of the QSC waveguide?
I ordered mine last week and they haven't arrived yet and I'm too lazy to sift through the thread right now. It looks like everything will fit if I make a new baffle board if my memory serves me right about the size of the horn.
I ordered mine last week and they haven't arrived yet and I'm too lazy to sift through the thread right now. It looks like everything will fit if I make a new baffle board if my memory serves me right about the size of the horn.
Russellc
Addicted Member
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, that one crossover looks different. Caps look twice as big, and there's 2 of each. Dont see any 9 volts, maybe I'm imagining things.
Nice work, wait, I see a 9 volt radio snap thingie! you've been CC ing havent you?
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Russellc
Addicted Member
14 x 10 Denny, but I think its just a hair over 10 inches on my measure, wouldnt matter unless you were real close, and it very well may be my measure and old eyes.
russellc
jackgiff
Well-Known Member
DENNYDOG
Addicted Member
Thanks! I just measured everything and it looks like it will be a perfect fit with a new baffle. Plenty of room to play with.
I'm going to make a one piece baffle for the horn and the woofer and move it forward 3/4". That will give me a 1/4" to the front edge of the cabinet and will give me a little bit of extra cabinet volume. And I won't have to remove any of the original bracing. The grill will fit almost flush with the front edge.
Russellc
Addicted Member
Those things are going to kill! are you going for the B&C DE 250 compression driver on that QSC? Oh boy, its going to be a sweet speaker!
Russellc
I agree; a standard E-wave lowpass (1.5mh and 12uf) will probably help a lot. Looks like a classic "notch out" where the 900 Hz crossover for the LE14 is "dying" before the waveguide kicks in around 1KHz or so... the 1.2KHz standard low-pass should be better. You might have to run a notch filter to get rid of the little "hiccup" upward in the Dayton 12" raw woofer response, but not much, I'd think.
Regards,
Gordon.
DENNYDOG
Addicted Member
Those things are going to kill! are you going for the B&C DE 250 compression driver on that QSC? Oh boy, its going to be a sweet speaker!
Russellc
That's the plan. I'm making the trip down to KC so it will be be a couple of weeks before I order the compression drivers. The waveguides are on the way so I can work on the cabinets in the meantime. :yes:
ROSSO
Active Member
So does it appear that the LE14A is just not going to be an optimum match for this w/g? 12" maybe better? LE120H-1? Too soon to cut baffles for woofers?
jackgiff
Well-Known Member
I should think that the LE14A would be an great woofer to match to this waveguide. The crossovers used in this test were built with values spec'ed for the LE14A, but the woofer used is a Dayton DC 300. The 900 Hz lowpass used for the LE14A doesn't suit itself to most standard woofers, which would rather have a 1.2 KHz lowpass.
