Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

[jackgiff]

Update on LR4 Xovers

While Zilch is attempting to figure out what is happening with the E'Wave Xovers and QSC waveguides/horns, I decided to put my B&C/QSC/PE Trapezoid cabinet pair to bed. With the LR4 crossover, I haven't found any of the extra nulls that have Zilch puzzled at this time. With the HF connected normally, a null happens directly in front of the baffle center. With the HF connected reverse, The vertical nulls appear almost equally above and below the baffle center. And looking at the plots for the Linkwitz Riley configuration, that is what should be expected, seems to me. Their may be other nulls there, but I can't find them, nor hear them. And I would really like to finish the pair of mesquite cabinets behind my equipment rack.

The cabinets were finished with another coat of Watco Danish oil, and two coats of Rub On Poly. The crossovers were then installed on the bolt on binding posts. The pictures show the Xovers mounted with and without the port tubes installed. One part (C3) needed an increase in value to 20 uF. The crossover schematic I used is shown as being revised on 11-27-2009. The speakers will be taken to my office at work, and used in a music system.

 

[Zilch]

Why not just make new baffles? E-waved Madrids: View attachment 151990

You guys just knock me out with how you're making eWave work in these various cabinets. :yes:

The speakers will be taken to my office at work, and used in a music system.

Stunning build and performance, Jack! :thmbsp:

 

[Guest158]

I will definately be using the circuit boards & making a new baffle would be easy enough but I would have to alter the grill also.

 

[Zilch]

I will definately be using the circuit boards & making a new baffle would be easy enough but I would have to alter the grill also.

That might be accomplished without removing the grille cloth even, I would think....

 

[Guest158]

I will have to closer...if I can do it without removing cloth...what to use to cut the 1/4" grill frame?

 

[Zilch]

I will have to closer...if I can do it without removing cloth...what to use to cut the 1/4" grill frame?

Router, laminate trimmer, mini-skill saw, Dremel with a small circular saw blade maybe. Put a layer of cardboard between the 1/4" material and the grille cloth to protect it where you cut through....

 

[Guest158]

Duh I do have a router & can prob put something between screen to protect...I do have twenty plus years woodworking but been away from it awhile...duh.I need another cold one!

 

[Guest158]

Little slow tonite
Thanks

 

[ROSSO]

Madrid grilles

I will have to closer...if I can do it without removing cloth...what to use to cut the 1/4" grill frame?

If I were you I would either run without grilles or make new ones. Original Madrid grilles in nice shape are getting to be pretty rare. I saved mine.

 

[Zilch]

Zilch I'd love to hear what you have to say on the Dayton DC-250, if I read your post right and you'll be measuring them soon with the QSC/DE250.

Elevated so I can find the upper null. I expect about the same location, since the center distance has not changed.

It's playing closed-box, but I have a leak to fix yet before I can comment on how it sounds....

 

[djnagle]

While Zilch is attempting to figure out what is happening with the E'Wave Xovers and QSC waveguides/horns, I decided to put my B&C/QSC/PE Trapezoid cabinet pair to bed. With the LR4 crossover, I haven't found any of the extra nulls that have Zilch puzzled at this time. With the HF connected normally, a null happens directly in front of the baffle center. With the HF connected reverse, The vertical nulls appear almost equally above and below the baffle center. And looking at the plots for the Linkwitz Riley configuration, that is what should be expected, seems to me. Their may be other nulls there, but I can't find them, nor hear them. And I would really like to finish the pair of mesquite cabinets behind my equipment rack.

The cabinets were finished with another coat of Watco Danish oil, and two coats of Rub On Poly. The crossovers were then installed on the bolt on binding posts. The pictures show the Xovers mounted with and without the port tubes installed. One part (C3) needed an increase in value to 20 uF. The crossover schematic I used is shown as being revised on 11-27-2009. The speakers will be taken to my office at work, and used in a music system.

Stunning Jack. Those are really powerful looking speakers. I don't know why I use the term, they just have that look to them. When veneer did you use on them?

 

[djnagle]

Elevated so I can find the upper null. I expect about the same location, since the center distance has not changed.

It's playing closed-box, but I have a leak to fix yet before I can comment on how it sounds....

Looks like the bass if faily rolled off by 100hz. Is that because of the driver you used, or the box size, or what? Or am I just reading that incorrectly. Admittedly, I have not read all the post on this one Z.

How many cu. ft. in that box once you put the horn in there?

 

[GordonW]

.Now comes the crazy part,thinking of using the Selenium 220ti with the Pyle Pro PH612 s big brother the PH818 7.6 x 17.6 x 6.9.I think it would at least look impressive, not looking for sound prefection like the pro's here. This project wont take place until after holidays so plenty time to prepare.
Thanks for any input, Robert

Dude... if you want the perfect horn for this project... don't use the PH818...
look at the Pyle PH714. It'll fit in PERFECTLY in a Model 19 clone!

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/53-975#?gclid=CJPDvPLbrZ4CFRrJsgodcSw0mQ

It's like a "modernized" version of the Altec 811... with better off-axis response. I've used them before (look in my avatar!)... they work GREAT with D220Ti horn drivers.

You can try the E-wave crossover with them (probably will work with a little tweaking)... I've tried the E-wave crossover on Altec 511s with Selenium D210Ti-OMF (bolt-on version), and it worked well enough to make me confident that you should get good results with the PH714 as well...

(PS: Zilch, if you wanted to start a file on "Alternative E-wave Implementations" like you were mentioning... the PH714 would DEFINITELY be one you might want to note. It works!)

Regards,
Gordon.

 

[GordonW]

Looks like the bass if faily rolled off by 100hz. Is that because of the driver you used, or the box size, or what? Or am I just reading that incorrectly. Admittedly, I have not read all the post on this one Z.

How many cu. ft. in that box once you put the horn in there?

The Dayton Classic 10/DC250 could really use a port. Tune it to something like 26 Hz, and let it rip. Seems to work well in around 2 ft^3 with that tuning.

Regards,
Gordon.

 

[Bauhausler]

Looks like the bass if faily rolled off by 100hz. Is that because of the driver you used, or the box size, or what? Or am I just reading that incorrectly. Admittedly, I have not read all the post on this one Z.

How many cu. ft. in that box once you put the horn in there?

I doubt that measurement has any data below about 200 due to testing system parameters and limitations.

 

[Bauhausler]

The Dayton Classic 10/DC250 could really use a port. Tune it to something like 26 Hz, and let it rip. Seems to work well in around 2 ft^3 with that tuning.

Regards,
Gordon.

From TS parameters provided by PE.

 

[juniorJBL]

Yes, yet today, maybe, though I'm having some difficulty keeping promises here of late....

This sim of another project from the Zaph website illustrates what I believe we may have going on:

That graph looks like one from Soundeasy. I have not got that far with the software tho. :sigh:

 

[Russellc]

From one novice speaker builder to another- if you want to experience what the Econowave project can offer, stick with the standard waveguide and X/O that's been tested. You'll not be dissapointed and won't be second guessing your decision to deviate from the standard waveguide. (I'm speaking from experience of having tried alternatives...) It's a really easy job, even for first timers!

Agreed. Try the original JBL waveguide first, or its Pyle replicant. the crossover
is completely workedout with compensation specific to that combination. You owe it to yourself to hear it as designed, you wont be disappointed. Cost of entry is too cheap not to try. If you want something a little larger, obtain the QSC waveguide and the bolt-on Selenium 220 ti. Zilch has been playing with that combination, I'm sure he'll be along with something shortly, its a combination that basically costs the same as the original E'wave.

Russellc

 

[Russellc]

That graph looks like one from Soundeasy. I have not got that far with the software tho. :sigh:

Thanks. Such info, if accurate, would certainly be the greatest for such projects as these. is this an actual measurement that soundeasy gives, or is this a prediction?

Russellc

 

[Bauhausler]

Agreed. Try the original JBL waveguide first, or its Pyle replicant. the crossover
is completely workedout with compensation specific to that combination. You owe it to yourself to hear it as designed, you wont be disappointed. Cost of entry is too cheap not to try. If you want something a little larger, obtain the QSC waveguide and the bolt-on Selenium 220 ti. Zilch has been playing with that combination, I'm sure he'll be along with something shortly, its a combination that basically costs the same as the original E'wave.

Russellc

Note that supplies of waveguides have been intermittent due to the surge in demand from DIY-ers. I've been waiting several weeks for the QSCs, which have been promised for early Dec. PE routinely runs out of the PH612s but usually restocks promptly.

I agree that the 'basic' Ewave crossover/D220Ti/JBL-or-PH612 combo gives amazing performance for the money. I've tried a number of driver and waveguide combos and still come back to that one.

I hope the DE250/QSC combo will be a step up in terms of perceived quality, although technically there doesn't seem to be an immense difference between that and the original. If I don't like it I'm sure someone will help me dispose of the remnants.