Russellc
Addicted Member
As always, excellent job. Very interesting crossover, and a beautiful speaker as well!:thmbsp:
Russellc
Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker
- Thread starter Zilch
- Start date
As always, excellent job. Very interesting crossover, and a beautiful speaker as well!:thmbsp:
Russellc
Russellc
Addicted Member
Agreed on the supplies, amazing how many are being built. The DE 250 shows immense promise, but I had some problems with it initially, a little sharp at first, breakin helped a lot. It is clearly a step up
in every aspect except cost, and is still reasonable. Also, it and the QSC seem to require a bit more work to fall into place as smoothly as the original. The original is an excellent performer, and its cost is really the icing on the cake.
My hats off to Jack, Zilch and everyone whose worked with this driver/guide combo!:thmbsp::thmbsp::thmbsp:
russellc
juniorJBL
SUB 1500 :)
I am still learning I will update as I climb that hill!! I will try to look this weekend.:yes:
jackgiff
Well-Known Member
Thanks, Dennis. They were veneered with mahogany.
Russellc
Addicted Member
That's great you have soundeasy! One day I hope to as well, my measurement system is several of the free programs and a dayton mic from PE. That's as far as I've got, I need something like the M-audio mobil unit, or some pre/ phantom power unit. When I get there, you'll already have it mastered! Thanks for the great inside peak at what all that powerful program is capable of!
Russellc
WopOnTour
Hoarder Extraordinaire
I have an M-Audio mobile-pre and I cant give it enough praise. Very easy to use, gets it's power off of the USB, and can do TWO mics. Very useful piece of hardware and not so pricey (I got mine off eBay for $40) However I too however am using mostly "free" software although I did bite the bullet for the 1/24 octave TrueRTA, but I'm just learning how to use it.
I've constructed an Econowave crossover using solder tag boards and ALL components for the variants (high/low SPL, 4,8,16ohm, even the 900Hz version) stuffed onto a single board. I can then use jumper wires with crimp-on terminals to connect and interconnect and experiment to might hearts content.
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Russellc
Addicted Member
eWave PC boards have an undocumented "feature," jumper J3, permitting switching between high- and low-sensitivity (or alternative) ex-board HF comp components. It splits off R1, R2, C3, and the L-pad.
I am currently using that as an insert point for an additional capacitor converting the highpass to 3rd-order in the QSC experiments.... :yes:
Bauhausler
Rational Subjectivist
Woofer Tester 3 on sale
I find this piece of gear very useful. PE has WT3 on sale for $69, $30 off the regular price.
I find this piece of gear very useful. PE has WT3 on sale for $69, $30 off the regular price.
Dude... if you want the perfect horn for this project... don't use the PH818...
look at the Pyle PH714. It'll fit in PERFECTLY in a Model 19 clone!
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/53-975#?gclid=CJPDvPLbrZ4CFRrJsgodcSw0mQ
It's like a "modernized" version of the Altec 811... with better off-axis response. I've used them before (look in my avatar!)... they work GREAT with D220Ti horn drivers.
You can try the E-wave crossover with them (probably will work with a little tweaking)... I've tried the E-wave crossover on Altec 511s with Selenium D210Ti-OMF (bolt-on version), and it worked well enough to make me confident that you should get good results with the PH714 as well...
(PS: Zilch, if you wanted to start a file on "Alternative E-wave Implementations" like you were mentioning... the PH714 would DEFINITELY be one you might want to note. It works!)
Regards,
Gordon.
Gordon, if you say this is a good horn to try maybe I'll try it - I've looked at this horn many times but I've always wondered if it is really a constant directivity design or a radial exponential. I can't tell from the pictures what it looks like inside the mouth.
WopOnTour
Hoarder Extraordinaire
Roger that! and am anticipating adding a few components to my "cutting boards" as I've been monitoring your (and jack's) progress with the LR crossover and the DE250.
But I despise PCBs though and will avoid them if at all possible. On my Klipsch crossovers I order genuine Arkansas cedar planks from Bob Crites. I love the look of "exposed" crossovers from the backside- is that sick and wrong?? LOL
But I realize with a sealed back cabinet there's really no incentive. On the eWaves once I get the crossover where I want it, I'll probably just order new parts,use point-to-point wiring and secure it all to a small chunk of 3/8" plywood board with a few brass screws and plastic wire ties.
I just received my WT3 a few weeks a go. I paid $98 but it included a bundled digital scale for accurate mass addition fo measuring V(as). Very neat little tool! I had a boxes of unknown drivers and inductors scabbed from speaker pilages through the years and in an afternoon I had all the T/S parameters and mH/DCRs measured and labled! I have some expensive Solen Litz inductors for the Klipsch ALK crossovers and when I tested them with the WT3 (10K sweep) they tested "bang on" accurate to a fraction!!Bauhausler said:
WopOnTour
Where? I'm not seeing that....
Russellc
Addicted Member
Crap, what a time to have spent the expendable cash! I've been eyeballing one of those for some time. At this price I must find a way if at all possible.
Russellc
Bauhausler
Rational Subjectivist
Where? I'm not seeing that....
It's in the Cyber Monday sale flyer so maybe it's only on sale on 11/30.
*** EDIT ***
The WT3 from Parts Express.
I use mine for rewinding/unwinding chokes to exact values. Beats guessing. And it's more accurate than my LCR meter on Ls and Rs.
Also when you have a driver with a VC rub or debris in the gap you can see it immediately.
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Wishful thinking; forward axis was 11" above the waviguide center at 44" mic distance. With the woofer moved to the rear of the ring it came down to 4". As shown below, 1/2" further back as on a 3/4" speaker ring, it's at 2.5" i.e., 3.25° above the waveguide axis:
Why does this forward axis/vertical null thing matter?
The waveguide vertical dispersion pattern is 40°, or +/- 20° from its axis. If the system axis is displaced above or below there, a portion of the available vertical listening window is consumed by this lack of coincidence.
Is it a deal breaker?
In the extreme, yes. Ideally, the forward axis should be normal (perpendicular) to a point midway between the drivers, ~7.75" below where I presently find it.... :yes:
Attachments
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4343
Super Member
Where? I'm not seeing that....
Me neither, hopefully tomorrow.
I did see the Dayton Classic 15" is on sale today only...
Jack, Zilch-
Here is the ladder delay I promised. LD's are kind of crazy and I'm still getting the hang of them, but these should work well. Don't have time right now to test it, so you guys are going to have to carry the progress on this one.
First is with the woofer frontmounted on the baffle, tweeter is red, woofer green:
Good alignment right at (my) crossover frequency, but goes quickly out of phase above that.
Rear mounting of the woofer is still probably required even with a ladder delay. Here are those results:
Looking pretty good there. Couple notes on these networks: the drivers have a nominal HP and LP in place before the LD is calculated, and one driver must have inverted polarity. These can be tweaked further for the actual driver and LP combo used, the inductor is as good as it will get so don't change it, but you can tweak the caps. Also the rest of the network should be placed ahead of the ladder delay, like this:
Curious to see the measurements look like.
Here is the ladder delay I promised. LD's are kind of crazy and I'm still getting the hang of them, but these should work well. Don't have time right now to test it, so you guys are going to have to carry the progress on this one.
First is with the woofer frontmounted on the baffle, tweeter is red, woofer green:
Good alignment right at (my) crossover frequency, but goes quickly out of phase above that.
Rear mounting of the woofer is still probably required even with a ladder delay. Here are those results:
Looking pretty good there. Couple notes on these networks: the drivers have a nominal HP and LP in place before the LD is calculated, and one driver must have inverted polarity. These can be tweaked further for the actual driver and LP combo used, the inductor is as good as it will get so don't change it, but you can tweak the caps. Also the rest of the network should be placed ahead of the ladder delay, like this:
Curious to see the measurements look like.
WopOnTour
Hoarder Extraordinaire
The link in the newsletter gets you there!
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/sho...Woofer+Tester+112909&utm_campaign=email111209
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