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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Nice looking L26 conversion! I am in the process of doing one right now, myself. I only hope it turns out as nice as yours! I got my drivers through a group buy, and they are the 210s, as well. Nice to hear that they worked well in this application.

I'm also doing my first-ever refoam. I'm doing a pair of JBL LE10A to use as the woofer portion of the EWG. There wouldn't be any tweaks available for the crossover for this driver, would there be? I only ask because it's possibly a better known older JBL driver. I've read anecdotal things over on LH about how people have upgraded the L26 with the LE10A, so it's my hope that the cabinets are a good match.

I scavenged some nice Alps 8 ohm L pads from a pair of JBL Lancer 77 crossovers. The rest of the xover was crap, glad I saved them for this tho! (Got to justify being a packrat...)

I got some inductors from some AR speakers cabs I had laying around. I need a 1.5mH and a .6mH inductor. I can make a 1.55mH from a .35 and a 1.2, and I have a .75mh which I can unwind a bit to get .6mh. I can use the money to buy an LCR Meter instead of inductors, if this is feasible.

Thanks for the cool project, guys! I want another pair of L26 cabs, now, too!
 
Hey Squidward-

Do try to flush mount the horn- makes for a nice clean look and easy to make a grill cover for as well! Worst come to worst you can hand chisel or Dremel tool the opening!
I am sure someone here could run the numbers on the LE10A woofer and see what xover parts you would need for a 3k xover- do use the xover on thread 13 for the 210 driver- it worked great for me!!
You can get a good cheap LRC meter on Ebay for $30 that works great- I did!
Good luck with your L26 project- they make very tight sounding EWaves that will just blow you away!! I bet those LE10A's will sound even better with a lower FS than mine!
DC
 
Squidward said:
I'm doing a pair of JBL LE10A to use as the woofer portion of the EWG. There wouldn't be any tweaks available for the crossover for this driver, would there be? I only ask because it's possibly a better known older JBL driver. I've read anecdotal things over on LH about how people have upgraded the L26 with the LE10A, so it's my hope that the cabinets are a good match.
Click to expand...
One of Jack's most recent E'Wave builds was with LE10H. They should be the same. Page back a bit.

Squidward said:
I got some inductors from some AR speakers cabs I had laying around. I need a 1.5mH and a .6mH inductor. I can make a 1.55mH from a .35 and a 1.2, and I have a .75mh which I can unwind a bit to get .6mh. I can use the money to buy an LCR Meter instead of inductors, if this is feasible.
Click to expand...
That should work. Breadboard the crossover to verify.

Squidward said:
Thanks for the cool project, guys! I want another pair of L26 cabs, now, too!
Click to expand...
Seems we may have dumbfounded the Bauhausler and his Advents. That'd be a "First...." ;)
 
DC - the horns are already flush mounted. It was my first real solo router project, and tho you can tell it's far from perfect, it's highly workable. I was even able to salvage the grill posts, so that I can re-use the original grills. I modded the original grills to allow for the larger horn exit, too. I have to do a little filling and sanding, but it's coming along.

Dennis, I was going to use the larger cabs, yes, but then Keg gave me an earful about how they weren't that good for this project, etc. I hemmed and hawed and after a lot of thought I was forced to agree. I think they would be good for a co-axial 12" driver, or maybe as a pair of small subs. The thought was that if the waveguide was mounted on top, it was too far from the woofer. If it was mounted on the motorboard with the woofer, there was a lip around the cab that would mess with it's response. Or something. So I said screw it, and started playing around with some of the other junk I have around here! No worries tho, I expect to make use of those cabs sometime in the future, they're too nice not to. Here's pics of the cabs that I am not using:

http://tubehacker.com/events/econo_wave_guide/

Zilch - Seems like everyone in SMAC has a pair of Advents for this project...except me. I hope the Franken-JBL can hang in there with the dozens of Franken-Advents and Franken-HPMs that I'm sure SMAC will produce! Also, I would like a pair of speakers to play with some mid-sized amps, like a dozen watts or so, and I believe these might be a candidate.
 
Don't forget the Franken-ESS AMT. I think those cabs that you are not using are Onken designes. Usually found them with Altec coaxials. If at some point you want to EWG them, you could make new motor boards and move the woof down enough to make room for the EWG. Cheers. Check out this link for more data on the Onken.

http://www.studiomaudio.info/onken.html
 
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Squidward said:
Zilch - Seems like everyone in SMAC has a pair of Advents for this project...except me. I hope the Franken-JBL can hang in there with the dozens of Franken-Advents and Franken-HPMs that I'm sure SMAC will produce!
Click to expand...
I'm tryin' to recruit some AR2x owners, but nobody's bit yet.... :p:
 
djnagle said:
Don't forget the Franken-ESS AMT. I think those cabs that you are not using are Onken designes. Usually found them with Altec coaxials. If at some point you want to EWG them, you could make new motor boards and move the woof down enough to make room for the EWG. Cheers. Check out this link for more data on the Onken.

http://www.studiomaudio.info/onken.html
Click to expand...

Dennis, would something like that be a good fit for my 416Zs from the Valencias. I've seen stuff on the Onken, but most of it seemed to be too huge or dual woofered, and I didn't want to go that way...
 
BHamm said:
I'm ready to take the plunge with a pair of AR2ax.....
Click to expand...
Cool. I THINK that's one which you can connect directly to the woofer, no?

If so, you don't have to do anything for starters but build the crossover, turn the AR2ax upside-down, and set E'Wave on top. That'll tell you if it's worth pursuing alternatives for mounting the waveguide on the baffle....

Edit: Well, no, in theory, even using the "Woofer only" connection, you should short across that inductor in series with the woofer. Try it both ways, maybe.... :dunno:

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/...inal_models_schematicss/ar-2ax_schematic.html

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=4513&hl=AR2ax

It's either AR #5 (1.187 mH, 0.4 Ohms) or #7 (1.88 mH, 0.58 Ohms).

We'll suss it out with measurements when you get to that point.... :yes:
 
On another note, a friend came by yesterday. I sold him a restored pair of JBL Barons (D130/075/N2400, C38) a while back. He's interested in hearing the EWG top end on them. I think the D130 would definitely benefit from the lower crossover point of the EWG circuit.
That might just rock!

I guess I need to clear the decks, burn some midnight oil and get the crossovers built. Not that much actual trouble, but I just have to scrape all of the parts into one heap.
 
Andy, the Onken is just another sort of bass reflex box. If you get the port lengths/dimensions right and the driver is workable wihtin the onken paramaters, there isn't a particular advantage or disadvantage to the designs outside of "they look effing cool".

I don't see anything particularly unworkable about Ed's onkens, but most of the options would hack up otherwise beautiful enclosures which is why i'd push him towards using them with coax speakers or maybe sealing them up for a nice pair of sealed subs with an Onken look. (Onkens to be tuned deep enough for sub duty need to be extraordinarily large because of the amount of vent area they typically end up with) Not that there is anything wrong with gigantic subs.
 
I like many small subs, too. I'm not picky. :)

If I try to explain this theory to the Misses, will you make sure to stand between us?
 
Bauhausler said:
On another note, a friend came by yesterday. I sold him a restored pair of JBL Barons (D130/075/N2400, C38) a while back. He's interested in hearing the EWG top end on them. I think the D130 would definitely benefit from the lower crossover point of the EWG circuit.
That might just rock!
Click to expand...
I'm not sure it's possible to fit E'Wave and a 15" woofer on the horizontal Baron baffle. That's not to say in a separate box on top wouldn't be a better choice, anyway, to get the height. :dunno:

The vertical Viscount version is a "Go" with LE14, but even that is a little low, depending on seating accommodations....
 
Zilch said:
I'm not sure it's possible to fit E'Wave and a 15" woofer on the horizontal Baron baffle. That's not to say in a separate box on top wouldn't be a better choice, anyway, to get the height. :dunno:

The vertical Viscount version is a "Go" with LE14, but even that is a little low, depending on seating accommodations....
Click to expand...

I have pix here of the Barons. The EWG def. will not fit in the baffle. I think the best way to test it is to flip the Baron cab upside down, putting the woofer's 'lower' edge very close to the top of the cab, then put the EWG on top of it. I'd like to hear that together because I like the midbass punch of the D130 but the 075 isn't my fave tweeter.
I assume the 'high sensitivity woofer' version of the xovr would be used.
 
dnewma04 said:
Andy, the Onken is just another sort of bass reflex box. If you get the port lengths/dimensions right and the driver is workable wihtin the onken paramaters, there isn't a particular advantage or disadvantage to the designs outside of "they look effing cool".

I don't see anything particularly unworkable about Ed's onkens, but most of the options would hack up otherwise beautiful enclosures which is why i'd push him towards using them with coax speakers or maybe sealing them up for a nice pair of sealed subs with an Onken look. (Onkens to be tuned deep enough for sub duty need to be extraordinarily large because of the amount of vent area they typically end up with) Not that there is anything wrong with gigantic subs.
Click to expand...
Dave:

They do look very cool, but my guts tell me they may be too small for my 416Zs. I used some 416-8XX parameters with WinISD and came up with a 7.92 ft3 box and made a rough extension to add on to the Valencias by cutting a very large hole ( Darn near the whole bottom) in the base and setting the cab onto it. Not much difference, but Kegger is pretty sure that the leakage from the seams may be critical. Pics at 11...
At any rate, I'm looking to better the Valencia sound with a bigger box, and it's not straightforward. I thought a Model 19 bin would be nice, but I hear it's "too big", so I've been poking around online looking for ideas. Squids' boxes certainly have a sweet look to them, but they look to be for a 12" driver.
So who know? I'm not afraid to build, but there's a LOT of considerations and I'm not looking to build half a dozen boxes. Maybe some prototypes out of 3/4" MDF; that would only run about $30/sheet and should build one box easily...
 
I generally don't put too much stock in enclosures being too big. I prefer them 'too big' most of the time. EBS alignments are some of my favs and that is an alignment that uses an enclosure that is oversized and tuned deeper. They work great at producing very extended, tight bass. I've read those comments myself about the 19s but have always walked away a little baffled by them.
 
What I've read about the Onken cabs is they are "tighter" bass than a sealed or vented cab of the same size. It's worth a try though.
 
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