Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

[badman]

I've got my E-wave bass bins set up in the living room being driven by a Dynaco Stereo 70 listening to some smooth Grant Green. It doesn't get much better than this.

ST70 is a perfect match for these types of speakers. It's got more than enough power to drive the higher sensitivity versions, and is laid back which mates well with the dynamic sound of the horns. Of course, you could go with some vintage Parasound and get earbleeds

 

[Zilch]

Can the Dayton Pro 10" woofer be substituted for the Delta lite 10e build http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/295-030s.pdf and can you use the 152i waveguide instead of the 122 round one with the same 10e crossover?

The compression driver is another variable. I used what QSC uses with the 122i waveguide. You're just going to have to try the specific combination you wish to build.

These points:

1) "Flex You Mettle" teaches a process for optimizing EconoWave designs.

2) You don't have to have CLIO; most any measurement system is applicable. We did one of them with the free downloadable HOLMImpulse.

3) It costs but $150 or less to get set up for doing measurements.

4) In detail, every design is different, but EconoWave crossover topology will work with any of them.

5) That topology is taught by Wayne Parham here:

http://www.pispeakers.com/Speaker_Crossover.doc

and in his ART Pi Speakers forum.

6) There are quite literally hundreds of driver/waveguide/crossover combinations just using the components we have already studied here.

7) I cannot myself detail them all....

 

[stgdz]

The compression driver is another variable. I used what QSC uses with the 122i waveguide.

Thanks, I was planning on using the CD that is in the 10e build.

 

[badman]

Regarding the D2500ti:

I had a sample consistency issue. Shown are impedance sweeps, upfiring into free air, for the good and bad units. Swapping diaphragm out did not correct this (I bought spares when ordering). I have contacted PE and am told a new unit is on the way to me as well as RMA #, etc, but haven't gotten the confirmation email.

AND for anyone who didn't get the news: Selenium was just acquired by Harman International. With what modern corporatism has done to JBL, I'd snag your Ewave drivers and a backup set of phragms ASAP.

 

[Zilch]

Thanks, I was planning on using the CD that is in the 10e build.

That significantly increases the likelihood that it will work.... :yes:

Regarding the D2500ti:

I just received another pair today. I mean to measure all six I now have to compare.

Generally, I consider variability in the resultant frequency response of drivers as used more significant than their free-air impedance. I find that compression drivers are less well controlled than pistonics....

 

[badman]

That significantly increases the likelihood that it will work.... :yes:


I just received another pair today. I mean to measure all six I now have to compare.

Generally, I consider variability in the resultant frequency response of drivers as used more significant than their free-air impedance. I find that compression drivers are less well controlled than pistonics....

Well, sure, but the impedance ripple leads to crossover interaction variability. I don't really want to design 2 versions. Unfortunately I don't have a good measurement setup for driver consistency (unless it's fairly far off- >1.5dB or broadband.) The truncated valley shows some oddball resonance/leakage taking place it would seem.

 

[greg_mitch]

Edit: What are your thoughts of mounting the waveguide on top of the woofer cabinet and offsetting them in an effort to bring them into better acoustical alignment?

I had the same idea...it came out ok...but sounds great!

 

[Sir.Byrd]

Are there any advantages of using a larger guide than the standard JBL waveguide for this project with the D220ti? Also, where could I come across some of these larger waveguides?
I'm trying to piece my 2226H project here. :yes:

 

[Zilch]

The advantage of the QSC 152i is that it incorporates an integral mouth roundover, accounting for its larger dimensions.

The disadvantage is that its taller vertical height results in a 1.75" increased center-to-center distance between it and its companion woofer, resulting in a shorter forward vertical lobe, other factors being equal.

Via minimizing the spacing between woofer and waveguide, and attending to aiming the forward axis of the two in combination in the crossover design, it is demonstrably possible to achieve a usable +/- 15° forward lobe (-6 dB) with a 12" woofer. Using a 15" woofer, likely somewhat less.

The QSC waveguides are available from QSC Pro Parts:

http://www.qsc.com/products/speakers/hpr/hpr152i.htm

The direct link to the part is yielding "Under Construction" presently....

 

[4343]

The advantage of the QSC 152i is that it incorporates an integral mouth roundover, accounting for its larger dimensions.

The disadvantage is that its taller vertical height results in a 1.75" increased center-to-center distance between it and its companion woofer, resulting in a shorter forward vertical lobe, other factors being equal.

Via minimizing the spacing between woofer and waveguide, and attending to aiming the forward axis of the two in combination in the crossover design, it is demonstrably possible to achieve a usable +/- 15° forward lobe (-6 dB) with a 12" woofer. Using a 15" woofer, likely somewhat less.

The QSC waveguides are available from QSC Pro Parts:

http://www.qsc.com/products/speakers/hpr/hpr152i.htm

The direct link to the part is yielding "Under Construction" presently....

PL-000446-GP is the part number from the .PDF file @

http://www.qsc.com/support/library/schems/Current/HPR/HPR152i_WP-152000-XX.pdf

Click on Zilck's link, then on any of the accessories to take you to their online store and enter the part number in the search box...:thmbsp:

I noticed they use the DE-200 on a different model speaker, has anyone compared that to the DE-250? Ti diaphragm, looks to be a little rougher FR (at the extreme top end), lower power rating, less $$$...

 

[truth seeker]

With Zilch's prodding, I discovered I had assembled my x-overs wrong. I got them fixed and mounted. How did you know I screwed up?

The script says: E-Wave (zm) DeLite. Its not a trade mark, its a ZILCH Mark

I like to keep the hardware recessed on the back of the case. These will travel and terminals don't need to get knocked off.

 

[truth seeker]

I'm glad I won't lose any of this cherry...shop made, resawn, ~0.20" thick.

 

[Fast1one]

I had the same idea...it came out ok...but sounds great!

That looks great! Do you have any other pictures?

 

[bwaslo]

Veneer applied and finished

All I can say is that I'm grateful for the person who invented wood furniture touchup pencils!

Ready for Dayton.

 

[greenmark59]

All I can say is that I'm grateful for the person who invented wood furniture touchup pencils!

Ready for Dayton.

I am looking forward to these "special" version of Econo-waves when I attend the speaker competition tomorrow Sat 7/10.

Good luck :thmbsp:

 

[Zilch]

You guys are certainly doing EconoWave up proud; it'll be their first exposure for most all attendees. In my own experience, the general response at events has been "mute." I figure that means:

1) "Ho hum, another 'nothing new here' speaker," or,

2) "These really suck, but we're too polite to say so," or,

3) "We are totally dumbfounded...." :tongue:

That looks great! Do you have any other pictures?

More on the "Member Projects" page, #92:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2260584#post2260584

 

[skywave-rider]

All I can say is that I'm grateful for the person who invented wood furniture touchup pencils!

Ready for Dayton.

I'm floored by your craftsmanship.

Beautiful.

At the demo: Positioning is critical. I know you know this but fight for a good spot. (Never been to a fest like that so I don't know how placement's worked out.)

 

[greenmark59]

You guys are certainly doing EconoWave up proud; it'll be their first exposure for most all attendees. In my own experience, the general response has been "mute." I figure that means:

1) "Ho hum, another 'nothing new here' speaker," or,

2) "These really suck, but we're too polite to say so," or,

3) "We are totally dumbfounded...." :tongue:

I think most AKers understand ECONOWaves are not CHEAPOWaves.

To be quite honest, I am surprised there are not more commercial offerings similar in concept and priced relatively "economically" so audio enthusiasts can get a decent bang for their buck$.

 

[truth seeker]

skywave-rider posted:
Positioning is critical

:scratch2:

Do you mean in the order of play? early/late? Please say more.

 

[rage]

truthseeker: your cabs are beautiful!!!

zilch: I love my ewaves!