Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker
- Thread starter Zilch
- Start date
I've visited their warehouse- it's a speaker building paradise. I don't want to spill too many beans but here's a long-term bass-cabinet project using some aitwood bits:
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bwaslo
Active Member
Me too.
And my veneer came in yesterday! Now lets see if I can get it all put on by Friday evening). First attempts went pretty well, but I'm having some trouble trimming the edges - it wants to splinter when going cross-grain. I was using one of those fancy Band-It trimmer tools, but I think I might just instead use an exacto knife and a large amount of patience.
skywave-rider
Slumming in Akihabara
Take your time. I can't wait to see them, though.
Russellc
Addicted Member
I had pretty good luck with one of the original tweeks for the DE 250 early in the thread before an actual crossover was worked out for it. It consisted of raising the coil to .80, and a resister change, seems like both were changed to 16 ohms, I'll check if you are interested. It wasnt perfect, but if I remember Zilch had it reasonably performing, I think it required a little boost on the L-pad if I remember. Didnt sound too bad!
Also I am having better results with the "5 element crossover" with the DE 250.
Russellc
4343
Super Member
The coils went to 0.90mH IIRC.
I did both as well, and find that the six element sounds great!:thmbsp: I was not so impressed by the "tweeked" version that I wanted to keep listening, and put the QSC away for several months. By the time I finished some other projects and came back to it, the 5 element was done, so I started trying layouts for the crossover, but before I could finish, the sixth element was added, so I had to scrap those boards* and add some room... Also, I'm using 2214H and there was definitely some ringing until I put the 50 ohms across the woofer terminals.
*Boards means just that, 8mm ply or .25" Masonite, whatever scraps I have on hand. An earlier comment on changing jumpers, thanks, but that just don't work with these!
Any plans to do some redesigned PC boards for the Deluxe? I've come up with a layout that changes the L-Pad wiring so that the numbers are in order. I did that because I have been using an old flat 3-wire cable and got tired of swapping the middle wire over to the end hole...
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Not as yet. I'm just being careful to be sure those building Deluxe are aware that the component layout is different.
I'll probably put the Selenium version in "Flex Your Mettle" to see how it shakes out; that cuts the cost by $80 per. Not sure what woofer I'll mate with it yet, perhaps the new Dayton Pro 12", which will knock it down an additional $100 per.
That and the Uber-Pro high-power one I'm currently working up will bring the total to 10 EconoWaves in the thread, and it'll be overdue for a wrap....
4343
Super Member
Not as yet. I'm just being careful to be sure those building Deluxe are aware that the component layout is different.
I'll probably put the Selenium version in "Flex Your Mettle" to see how it shakes out; that cuts the cost by $80 per. Not sure what woofer I'll mate with it yet, perhaps the new Dayton Pro 12", which will knock it down an additional $100 per.
That and the Uber-Pro high-power one I'm currently working up will bring the total to 10 EconoWaves in the thread, and it'll be overdue for a wrap....
I finally got around to posting my Deluxe build, there's a pic of the layout I used at the end, but I'm posting the beginning on purpose...:thmbsp:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=308787
Funny you mentioned that, because that is exactly the configuration that I wanted to try. The Dayton 12 has similar specs to the Kappa, despite a lower X-max. It does have a slight edge in efficiency. It also doesn't have the peaking cone break up at 2khz that the Kappa has. Very promising driver.Not as yet. I'm just being careful to be sure those building Deluxe are aware that the component layout is different.
I'll probably put the Selenium version in "Flex Your Mettle" to see how it shakes out; that cuts the cost by $80 per. Not sure what woofer I'll mate with it yet, perhaps the new Dayton Pro 12", which will knock it down an additional $100 per.
That and the Uber-Pro high-power one I'm currently working up will bring the total to 10 EconoWaves in the thread, and it'll be overdue for a wrap....
When do you think you will start working on that project? I will be ready to build in about 5 weeks time. I would love to try this configuration. Using the deluxe crossover ( 6 components) the total price is just under $300 for everything minus the waveguides/enclosures for a PAIR. Very attractive price.
Edit: What are your thoughts of mounting the waveguide on top of the woofer cabinet and offsetting them in an effort to bring them into better acoustical alignment? Similar to horn + onken designs:
Better Example:
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That works, and a bunch have built them that way, but you've really got to have measurement capability to get the offset aligned properly. We've reduced the center to center distance between woofer and waveguide in Deluxe to the absolute minimum and achieved a +/- 15° (-6 dB) forward lobe. Farther apart, the lobe gets smaller, and the axis must be aimed more precisely.
It's a somewhat esoteric point that matters hugely; the height of the QSC waveguide is against us in this.... :yes:
Unfortunately I don't have the measuring equipment to do this accurately. A lot of my speaker projects were based on theory. For this next project, whatever it may be, I will rely on those who are much more knowledgeable than me for the design. Especially since it will be my last major one for a long time.
I don't want this to sound pushy, but I am simply making a list of my options. Do you have an ETA of when you can build/design the 220ti/Dayton combo? If you give me about a week, I will even be willing to provide you with the materials needed, such as the woofers. Anything to help further the project and help others who are interested in this arrangement
truth seeker
Member
just in time? or prognostication in the 11th hour?
My issue is similar. With the E-Wave Delites, I plan to set the waveguide above the enclosure. I was going to rout and recess the waveguide into the face at the top of the pictured cases. What might be the result for moving the waveguide ~1/2, 5/8 inch forward?...and leaving the face of the case intact?
The cases are complete. I'm gonna do the fit-up tomorrow. :scratch2:
My issue is similar. With the E-Wave Delites, I plan to set the waveguide above the enclosure. I was going to rout and recess the waveguide into the face at the top of the pictured cases. What might be the result for moving the waveguide ~1/2, 5/8 inch forward?...and leaving the face of the case intact?
The cases are complete. I'm gonna do the fit-up tomorrow. :scratch2:
I've got my E-wave bass bins set up in the living room being driven by a Dynaco Stereo 70 listening to some smooth Grant Green. It doesn't get much better than this.
I have the woofers on order; it's going to be a week before I'm able to do anything with the design other than listen to it with a different woofer, as I presently am doing.I don't want this to sound pushy, but I am simply making a list of my options. Do you have an ETA of when you can build/design the 220ti/Dayton combo? If you give me about a week, I will even be willing to provide you with the materials needed, such as the woofers. Anything to help further the project and help others who are interested in this arrangement
Delite was prototyped with rear-mounted woofer and front-mounted waveguide on a 3/4" baffle. With that relationship, and using the crossover as designed, the forward axis came out at +4.66°, suggesting that the waveguide could come forward a bit, relatively.
http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?p=1637407#post1637407
The Delite crossover uses the same "special" board layout as Deluxe:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3529116#post3529116
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truth seeker
Member
Zilch,
Thanks for the insight.
This fits into my plans to "tweak" the QSC 152i with the addition of roundovers...I will explore:
*removing the current 152i roundover
*mounting spiral shaped roundovers to the top and sides of the guide
this spiral will mount tangentially to the 152i, beginning with a ~6'
radius and progress "around the corner" to a ~3/4" radius
*haven't decided on the bottom edge treatment
life is a work in progress...:thmbsp:
Thanks for the insight.
This fits into my plans to "tweak" the QSC 152i with the addition of roundovers...I will explore:
*removing the current 152i roundover
*mounting spiral shaped roundovers to the top and sides of the guide
this spiral will mount tangentially to the 152i, beginning with a ~6'
radius and progress "around the corner" to a ~3/4" radius
*haven't decided on the bottom edge treatment
life is a work in progress...:thmbsp:
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truth seeker
Member
I did a lot of simulation with Martin King's Quarter Wave worksheets. One of the things I found by moving the driver closer to the top of the enclosure was a reduction in "ripple" in the ~700-1 kHz range.
The sloped top of my cabinet is a result of this. I have the mounting area I need. I have the driver ~1 1/2" closer to the top of the box. That reduces the simulated ripple by half.
...along with Owens Corning 703 damping the internal reflections are further reduced.
The sloped top of my cabinet is a result of this. I have the mounting area I need. I have the driver ~1 1/2" closer to the top of the box. That reduces the simulated ripple by half.
...along with Owens Corning 703 damping the internal reflections are further reduced.
Can the Dayton Pro 10" woofer be substituted for the Delta lite 10e build http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/295-030s.pdf and can you use the 152i waveguide instead of the 122 round one with the same 10e crossover?
Sounds great! I look forward to your design and listening impressions.
Wayne Parham
Active Member
Internal standing waves
Very good. This is something too often overlooked, but very important in larger cabinets used with midwoofers run up high, like all the ones we're using in matched-directivity two-way speakers. It's a good idea to model the internal standing waves, to position the midwoofer and port where the standing waves are zero crossing, not in a peak pressure node. Then it's usually a good idea to put some insulation in the cabinet spanning the cross-section too, not just along the walls. This helps attenuate the lower midrange inside the cabinet.
Very good. This is something too often overlooked, but very important in larger cabinets used with midwoofers run up high, like all the ones we're using in matched-directivity two-way speakers. It's a good idea to model the internal standing waves, to position the midwoofer and port where the standing waves are zero crossing, not in a peak pressure node. Then it's usually a good idea to put some insulation in the cabinet spanning the cross-section too, not just along the walls. This helps attenuate the lower midrange inside the cabinet.
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