Nice looking speakers you got there TS. I think I would of copied your disign if I would of seen them earlier.
cheers
Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker
- Thread starter Zilch
- Start date
Nice looking speakers you got there TS. I think I would of copied your disign if I would of seen them earlier.
cheers
I'd be SO tempted to cut in a 3012LF below there and run it in "0.5" mode.... :thmbsp:Nice looking speakers you got there TS. I think I would of copied your disign if I would of seen them earlier.
Of note: While TS's EconoWaves didn't win, they're getting very good press. For example, this from one of the judges:
panomaniac said:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/169755-what-would-you-do-cabinet-7.html#post2243311
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Sir.Byrd
Lunatic Member
So how much will I have to tweak it and in what way to get it to work with a 2226H and the D220ti???
skywave-rider
Slumming in Akihabara
Well, it's designed for the 2226 in a fairly small box...you can ask Wayne for the box plans too.
However, as for the hard part of your question, I don't know. It will require different compensation and probably a different core filter. But you may get lucky. Like I said, I dialed in the max attenuation from Wayne's chart (20dB; my woofer is not efficient) and that's about it. Your efficiencies are better matched.
I bet someone out there has tried the combo you are interested in.
skywave-rider
Slumming in Akihabara
Zilch,
What is your estimation of a good low pass frequency (of .5 woofer) for running that design in 2.5 mode? Let's say you want to run them away from corners, toed in, so not too close to a back wall. (Assuming you have response curves.)
Note in suggestion box: SuperWave 2.5
Sounds like you'll be running sub(s); augmenting the bass as I'm suggesting is more of a two-channel approach.... :yes:
I hear what your are saying, but more is always better.
I havent played around with these really yet and I know my subs are outta phase with my ewaves. Ill take care of that this weekend. But what I wanted to know cause Im going to be opening these up this weekend, is Im going to be checking the phase of all the drivers with the battery test to make sure everything is wired up right (I dont trust the red and black jacks on the backs all the time) and was wondering about testing the de250's with a battery as they dont move very much. Is there a easier/better way that I dont know about for checkin the phase for these?
I havent played around with these really yet and I know my subs are outta phase with my ewaves. Ill take care of that this weekend. But what I wanted to know cause Im going to be opening these up this weekend, is Im going to be checking the phase of all the drivers with the battery test to make sure everything is wired up right (I dont trust the red and black jacks on the backs all the time) and was wondering about testing the de250's with a battery as they dont move very much. Is there a easier/better way that I dont know about for checkin the phase for these?
Seconded.... unless you like expensive crinkly sounds.
Zilch or anyone:
I will be building the Deluxe but with tower: app 36Hx15.5Wx11D
this will give about 2.5 Cu Ft.
I understand (correctly, I hope) that the crossover will be fine whatever the box size.
I will not be using bass augmentation thru amplifier. I do not plan for now, to use sub woofers.
But I think your vent with the PE trap might have to be adjusted, how did you arrive at our vent size.? was it cut and try or did you use a vent modelling program. Any comments?
Also on reading some of Wayne's material he is concerned about standing waves affecting the woofer and also being a factor in the port location. Do I need to play around with MJK modelling system?
Eminence suggests up to 3 Cu ft for the 12LF on their spec sheet.
BTW I built towers for my daughter (in Idaho) with 123A1 and standard ewave HF. They sound wonderful to me and I had the comment that they sounded better than the live symphony. (We had all been to various concerts recently)
Towers about the size above. I used about 1.5 lbs of polyester fill
and used 24 uF in the bass XO.
I could not hear any harshness in the treble, as some have stated for the standard ewave. Perhaps my ears or the larger bypass cap in the bass XO.
Beethoven's 9th symphony has lots of orchestra and chorus and solo voices: all came through clear and you could pick out individual voices.
In orchestra the instrument were also distinct, not all smushed together.
Solo voice recording was "in the room"
For movies the clarity in voices was phenomenal as well.
Many thanks to Zilch for his guidance. I am extremely pleased with the result.
I am waiting for my daughter to provide a picture so I can get into the Ewave list, as I am back in Canada.
SheldonD
I will be building the Deluxe but with tower: app 36Hx15.5Wx11D
this will give about 2.5 Cu Ft.
I understand (correctly, I hope) that the crossover will be fine whatever the box size.
I will not be using bass augmentation thru amplifier. I do not plan for now, to use sub woofers.
But I think your vent with the PE trap might have to be adjusted, how did you arrive at our vent size.? was it cut and try or did you use a vent modelling program. Any comments?
Also on reading some of Wayne's material he is concerned about standing waves affecting the woofer and also being a factor in the port location. Do I need to play around with MJK modelling system?
Eminence suggests up to 3 Cu ft for the 12LF on their spec sheet.
BTW I built towers for my daughter (in Idaho) with 123A1 and standard ewave HF. They sound wonderful to me and I had the comment that they sounded better than the live symphony. (We had all been to various concerts recently)
Towers about the size above. I used about 1.5 lbs of polyester fill
and used 24 uF in the bass XO.
I could not hear any harshness in the treble, as some have stated for the standard ewave. Perhaps my ears or the larger bypass cap in the bass XO.
Beethoven's 9th symphony has lots of orchestra and chorus and solo voices: all came through clear and you could pick out individual voices.
In orchestra the instrument were also distinct, not all smushed together.
Solo voice recording was "in the room"
For movies the clarity in voices was phenomenal as well.
Many thanks to Zilch for his guidance. I am extremely pleased with the result.
I am waiting for my daughter to provide a picture so I can get into the Ewave list, as I am back in Canada.
SheldonD
truth seeker
Member
The carcases are 3/4" mdf except for the front baffle, the bottom of the slot port and the removable back...those are 3/4" lumber core plywood. Glue blocks run the length of all inside corners, except at the port entry.
Most of the veneer was sawn from ~1" boards, yielding 3 pieces from which to choose/match.
The backs are quarter-sawn sycamore. The balance of the cabinet is covered in cherry, chosen for figure and the presence of gum or mineral streaks. There's also a healthy amount of curl figure in this wood.
The top slope (3" in 12") was chosen to decrease the effective distance between the Eminence 2512 and the top of the case. Simulations done with Martin King's worksheets showed a decrease in ripple as a result. A flat top would have produced ripple ~+/-2 dB. The sloped top is +/- 1 dB in the 650-1K range. I believe the sloped top also makes whatever standing waves do exist more difuse...
The slot port is sloped 3 in 12 as well. The top of the exit includes a ~4" radius to the front of the case. The bottom goes to the floor with a ~5/8" roundover. There is a mid-slot brace which connects the top and bottom of the port.
There are hard maple stiffeners on all panels except the slot port and removable back. These run diagonally and are tapered, thicker in the middle.
The areas between stiffeners are covered with Owens Corning 703, 5/8" thick. My thumbnail calculations tell me that for this material (3.0 lb/cf) each cabinet has 0.9 lbs. of fiberglass on the walls. Additional stuffing of ~1 lb. of polyfil was in place during the MWAF. I have since reduced this by half and will further cut back on the stuffing once I get used to this level, for comparison purposes.
The B&C DE250 is attached to a QSC 152i. The mounting of the combination evolved from an 11th hour query to which Zilch responded: moving the front of the waveguide forward slightly would lower the response tilt from ~5.5 degrees up. The mount rests on the cabinet with no attachment except the wires. The slope of the top resists displacement from vibration. The weight of the CD keeps it in place. I'm very happy with this elegant solution coming out of what was for me a moment of indecision. It works.
Using loudness or bass-boost from my receiver tells me the center frequency of the boost is in the wrong place for these. I have plans to go active. I will explore some bass boost at a better chosen frequency.
I will sketch up a side-view cut-away.
Any questions?
Thanks to all. Your on the top of the list, Zilch.
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I used Bass Box 6 Pro to design the box tuning for eWave Standard uisng the Dayton woofer in the trap cab, aiming for ~30 Hz. I then just stuck the Deluxe components in the same boxes, knowing that they would not make extended bass in that size enclosure without assist.
That tuning is too low for Deluxe's Eminence woofer; boost at 30 Hz doesn't do much, but at 40 Hz, it kicks in nicely, so I'll be adjusting the ports to some intermediate frequency. In the course of the discussions over on Tech Talk, Pete, I believe it was, suggested that using a second 3012LF in "helper" mode would get it done, and Dennis (Catapult) posted some sims. If I were building stand-alone towers (no subs), I'd be looking real hard at those options to coax extended bass out of these and similar pro woofers.
None of this affects the crossover....
skywave-rider
Slumming in Akihabara
Thanks!
Your post is clear. Because I know little about woodworking, I have no idea how to do what you did. But I like the result. If you get time at some point, closer photos of the port w/ roundover and the slant-top would be great and instructive.
The WG mount looks integral to the baffle in pics; but now I see what you are talking about. I think it was good to tilt the forward axis down a bit for the audience at the expo, even for general seated home listening.
Just love the look. Will be a devastating set up when you finish the rest. Thanks for the details.
Russellc
Addicted Member
Pi speakers. Wayne's site at Audioroundtable.com Get his crossover document while you're at it. He'll Email you it all upon request.
Russellc
Sir.Byrd
Lunatic Member
I did, so I just build this crossover to a tee?
skywave-rider
Slumming in Akihabara
The only optimized, documented and "official" crossovers for EWave are listed at the top of the thread. If your components are different, which they are, it's going to be an experiment. I think Russell has had the closest system, in my memory, to what you propose. JBL 2235H, EWaveGuide, D220Ti. I am not sure what tweaks he did if any to the EWAVE crossover, or if he tried that combo with the 4Pi x-o. PM him and I'm sure he'll let you know.
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