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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Zilch said:
It's constant directivity you're hearing, perhaps for the first time. I was recently ridiculed for an implicit suggestion that Linkwitz's Orion might be well served by one of the smaller PT waveguides you have on order. ;)
Click to expand...

OB with waveguide like Physics CS2 had been in my mind for a long time actually. I will definitely look into it.

A high efficiency dipole sounds logical except that there is no way the woofer would keep up.
 
I just cain't hep myself! I got these speakers from CableGuy a couple months ago and have been trying to make them right ever since. The other day I had a brainstorm. As you see them in the pix, they are Alpha 15a woofers in "H" frames driven by a plate amp for each one. The big horn has a Fostex FE126e in it. The horns, when I got them were open baffle. There was a real lack of midbass and I figured out that it was the front and back wave cancling eachother out. So I put a 6x6x6" box over the back of the driver and turned them into straight front loaded horns. The midbass is at full strangth but the high seem rather resonent and scratchy.

So....new game plan. I will lob off the back of the horn which will leave a 6.5 x 5.5" mouth, then I will put a Emenance Beta 10" driver back there and close it off with the right sized compression chamber. In the mouth of the horn I will suspend a wave guide for the highs. I am hoping to use the standard eWave crossover and 220 CD on 6x6" or 8x8" wave guide.

The "H" frame woofs will go from 28hz to 150hz, the mid from 150hz to 1500hz, and the WG on up.

I'd like your thoughts.

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Here is the link to the Beta data

http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/290-403s.pdf
 
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Zilch said:
What did you do for the 12uF in the lowpass there? Is that a 10uF electrolytic in parallel with a 2uF film cap? A BIPOLAR electrolytic?

Put the correct 12uF MPP cap in there and see if it still sounds like ass....
Click to expand...


I would like to think that much of the ass would be removed anyway ;)

RC
 
Hey Zilch..,, or anyone else that may be able to answer this... How do you thinik a pair of the JBL 2225H drivers would do in my Barziwaves instead of the Lambdas?
 
similost said:
Hey Zilch..,, or anyone else that may be able to answer this... How do you thinik a pair of the JBL 2225H drivers would do in my Barziwaves instead of the Lambdas?
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What size are the boxes? i used JBL 2225H in about 5 cu ft tuned to 40 hz, it worked very well! Extreme mid snap, drumkits sounding very lifelike. I little less extension than 2235H in the same box (different tuning), but the 2235H gave up some of that snap....Wayne at Pi speakers uses the 2226H ( and told me the 2225H would work as well) in a smaller box with his 4PI Pro version.

Russellc
 
If I remember right, they are about 3.4cuft. I had tuned them to 38hz.

Right now they have Lambda TD15M drivers in them. I was thinking the JBL might give me a little more slam.. but maybe not. THat's why I'm asking what the results might be before I go through the hassle of swapping them to see.
 
Hi Sim, I've had both of those drivers and I like the TD15s just a bit better. I think they have more slam and better detail. But, if you have the 2225 then you might want to put one in and see how she goes.
 
I had been reading on how to make the cabinet. This seems a huge topic in itself. Constrained layer damping, box resonance etc.

I mounted the WG to my dipoles and adjusted xo properly etc. It is really great. However after some observation the rear radiation still needs to be maintained so a dome tweeter is used at the back.

Indoor/5ms gating
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With dome tweeter normally it goes like this:

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djnagle said:
Hi Sim, I've had both of those drivers and I like the TD15s just a bit better. I think they have more slam and better detail. But, if you have the 2225 then you might want to put one in and see how she goes.
Click to expand...

Thanks DJ.... I can easily believe more detail. with the TD15... I was just wondering about the punch though. I guess the JBL would lose some of that taking them out of a larger box and going into something smaller.

It won't be too hard to try a swap, and I need to pull my barzi's apart anyway to get the boxes sealed up better, so maybe I'll just experiment for the fun of it..
 
similost said:
Hey Zilch..,, or anyone else that may be able to answer this... How do you thinik a pair of the JBL 2225H drivers would do in my Barziwaves instead of the Lambdas?
Click to expand...
You'll not get extended bass out of 2225H and will have to recone them to 2235H (and compromise their "punch") or augment with subs.

2225/26 are favorite midbass drivers in 15" format among HT builders, but optimizing the vertical polars can be a challenge when mated to a waveguide at 1 kHz or above. That's why I stick to 12" woofers max for EconoWaves. In pro applications, 40 Hz is considered "subwoofage;" it's a different frame of reference. Yes, there are ways to make duals play a bit lower, but it's not typically done....
 
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gainphile said:
I mounted the WG to my dipoles and adjusted xo properly etc. It is really great. However after some observation the rear radiation still needs to be maintained so a dome tweeter is used at the back.
Click to expand...
A rear-firing tweeter adds some artificial spaciousness at the high end, but messes up directivity, and puts the room back in as a controlling factor. Abandon your dipole/Orion frame of reference for the time being, and give true constant directivity a fair shot. Domes are a mess by comparison, as your plots clearly indicate. Voecks took the second tweeter OUT of Salon in Salon2, if I have the chronology correct, and it was not to lower the cost.... :tongue:

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You've seen how close to that we're getting with the Mini-EconoWaves, presently:

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KD Trapezoidal's Discontinued at Parts-Express?

-sorry if this has already been posted, I searched around and couldn't find any mention of it--

I'm a new comer to this thread, and am hoping to start on these in the new year. I was just looking at the parts-express site today, and they state that the suggested cabinets (KD Trapezoidal part no: 245-325) has been discontinued. A few days ago it seemed it was still available...
If this turns out to be the case, what other DIY-assembly options are there?


Gabe
 
Gobstopper said:
-sorry if this has already been posted, I searched around and couldn't find any mention of it--

I'm a new comer to this thread, and am hoping to start on these in the new year. I was just looking at the parts-express site today, and they state that the suggested cabinets (KD Trapezoidal part no: 245-325) has been discontinued. A few days ago it seemed it was still available...
If this turns out to be the case, what other DIY-assembly options are there?


Gabe
Click to expand...

Try the PE part number 245-324 PA Knock-Down Trapezoid Birch Cabinet for 12" Driver.
 
similost said:
If I remember right, they are about 3.4cuft. I had tuned them to 38hz.

Right now they have Lambda TD15M drivers in them. I was thinking the JBL might give me a little more slam.. but maybe not. THat's why I'm asking what the results might be before I go through the hassle of swapping them to see.
Click to expand...

I've never heard the Lambda drivers, but from what others say, there likely may out class the 2225H. That said, the 2225H is a slammin driver, would be interested in your observations.

Russellc
 
Zilch said:
A rear-firing tweeter adds some artificial spaciousness at the high end, but messes up directivity, and puts the room back in as a controlling factor. Abandon your dipole/Orion frame of reference for the time being, and give true constant directivity a fair shot. Domes are a mess by comparison, as your plots clearly indicate. Voecks took the second tweeter OUT of Salon in Salon2, if I have the chronology correct, and it was not to lower the cost.... :tongue:
Click to expand...

I was hoping that the rear radiation is diffused by the time it arrives at listening position. I observed that it is ok so far. I will listen more carefully.

There will be an econowave deluxe built in Melbourne shortly and I will have a chance to listen and compare note.

The dipole + waveguide maintains directivity to very low frequency (my dipole is equalised to 20hz Q=0.5) walking around them I could hear the sound diminishing.
 
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