• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Zilch said:
That's the standard eWave crossover, and it should balance easily with DQ-10 woofers, which are the same as in large Advents, basically, used with DE10 compression drivers.

What are those woofers, actually?

What did you do for the 12uF in the lowpass there? Is that a 10uF electrolytic in parallel with a 2uF film cap? A BIPOLAR electrolytic?

Put the correct 12uF MPP cap in there and see if it still sounds like ass....
Click to expand...

Yep, that is the cap set up we have. OK, so that is one thing to look at. I am 240 miles from Dell and when I go up next, I want to have as many bases covered as posible. So, if replacing the cap does not do the trick, what else can I look at, high comp wise?

Here is what GordonW wrote about the woofers

"Those are made by Credence Speaker Corporation... the OTHER speaker company from Kentucky. Made in the 35th week of 1993, so they're relatively recent, by "vintage" standards.

They look as lot like Speakerlab drivers (especially the cone, rubber surround and dustcap). However, I do not know if Credence ever built Speakerlab drivers...

I'd be inclined to try the OLA woofers. Those Credence woofers probably want a larger box than the OLA or Dahlquist woofers would use, for optimal response linearity.

Regards,
Gordon. "

It seems that Ross and I did a WT3 sweep on them but will have to check with Ross.
 
djnagle said:
I had no measuring equipment but it was obvious that the high comp was way too high. The other issue was the L-pad was just barely turned and it was too much.

The best I can do to explain the sound is to say that when I put on Brian Braumburg playing only solo stand up bass, I turned up the l-pad around 1/4 to get the mids coming out of the horn to match with the woofer volume wise. When I put on full range music on, the highs nearly shattered my ears.

I think just bringing down the high comp would do it. So what should I change and to what value?

I used a 30ohm and 15ohm and .47uf cap to start with.
Click to expand...

I think that we may be running into a problem with the low-end rolloff of the DE10. It looks like, by the factory graph, that it's pretty much "out of there" itself, by 1.5KHz... it's down by 7-8dB by 1KHz. By comparison, the D220 is only down about 3dB @ 1KHz.

I know, the manufacturer sheets are using different horns, which may be misleading... but I have a strong suspicion that the DE10 just may not have enough LF extension to do the 1.5KHz crossover point. It could be OK in a slightly modified arrangement with a smaller woofer (say 8" or 10"), with a slightly higher crossover point (say 2KHz, rather than 1.5KHz)...

Anyone else used the DE10 in an Ewave, that might could comment on this?

Denny, do you have another driver (DE250, D220Ti, etc) that could be temporarily substituted for the DE10 in there, to test this theory?

The other issue, is that the Credence woofer may itself be rolling off, around the crossover point. This may require increasing the low-pass frequency of the crossover, to let the woofer "run a little wilder", in order to get sufficient midrange response to meet the horn. I'd try reducing the cap size in the lowpass, as an experiment...

Regards,
Gordon.
 
Last edited:
Zilch said:
If I "had" to build something right now, I'd use XT1086, but we're working on getting the 152i available again soon.

Contact your Parts Express sales representative so they know there is a real demand; they're our best hope for future availability right now.... :yes:
Click to expand...

I'm doing that today! Lets show them the interest guys!

Russellc
 
Last edited:
bwaslo said:
I wrote to Karl at PE about the QSC waveguide and pointed to the related thread on their techtalk forum. He said he was interested and asked if I had any drawings of it, I offered to lend him one of the horns I had as a model. No answer on that yet.

I think they are kind of busy right now (trying to bring to market a microphone product I designed for them, some production pains). With luck they may be able to get something out like the QSC guide in a while.
Click to expand...

Efforts appreciated to be sure!

russellc
 
bwaslo said:
I wrote to Karl at PE about the QSC waveguide and pointed to the related thread on their techtalk forum. He said he was interested and asked if I had any drawings of it, I offered to lend him one of the horns I had as a model. No answer on that yet.

I think they are kind of busy right now (trying to bring to market a microphone product I designed for them, some production pains). With luck they may be able to get something out like the QSC guide in a while.
Click to expand...

Let them know this- if they can get a version of this waveguide as a standard PE product, I'll be one of the very first in line to buy a pair.

Regards,
Gordon.
 
GordonW said:
I think that we may be running into a problem with the low-end rolloff of the DE10. It looks like, by the factory graph, that it's pretty much "out of there" itself, by 1.5KHz... it's down by 7-8dB by 1KHz. By comparison, the D220 is only down about 3dB @ 1KHz.

I know, the manufacturer sheets are using different horns, which may be misleading... but I have a strong suspicion that the DE10 just may not have enough LF extension to do the 1.5KHz crossover point. It could be OK in a slightly modified arrangement with a smaller woofer (say 8" or 10"), with a slightly higher crossover point (say 2KHz, rather than 1.5KHz)...

Anyone else used the DE10 in an Ewave, that might could comment on this?

Denny, do you have another driver (DE250, D220Ti, etc) that could be temporarily substituted for the DE10 in there, to test this theory?

The other issue, is that the Credence woofer may itself be rolling off, around the crossover point. This may require increasing the low-pass frequency of the crossover, to let the woofer "run a little wilder", in order to get sufficient midrange response to meet the horn. I'd try reducing the cap size in the lowpass, as an experiment...

Regards,
Gordon.
Click to expand...

I'll try to dig up a pair of 220 for the next time I go up. I will try to find the WT3 plots for that woof but I will also bring up the WT3 and test them if I can't find the plots.

So here is the list so far

1. hand full of smaller caps for the woof
2. WT3
3. resistors and caps for the high pass up or down adjustment
(don't know what to bring)
4. 220 compression drivers
5. coffee roaster, green coffee beans, coffee grinder, french press


anything else I should look at bringing?
 
Well, I've been lurking here since Jun-Jul, found GedLee was just down the street but then another path lead me here. I was first going to build a crossover and put a 220Ti and JBL 60X90 on top of a laid over Hersey but didn't know if the woof would reach that high. I then found a pair of AR 2a and thought " I don't even have to open them up, I just unhook the jumper!". But I will have to change the crossover to the less efficent one, "that's all right, wasn't totally built, just have to order some parts". Then I found some cheap, stripped Nady trap cabs on CR, "I may as well build some standards", that's all right, ... order some more parts". Should have ordered some knock down trap cabs. I wanted to use the original woof hole as a speaker ring and radius the new flush baffle woofer hole, that puts the woof too high to use the QSC wave guide (which I didn't know was a two bolt till I opened it tonight). Not to mention the PITA it was getting that carpet off and I still have to strip the contact cement and remaining fur, and oh yeah, they need to be hammered apart and re-glued most places. So I'm in it, and before I wank this thing any further, will I need to change the crossover again for the JBL waveguide? The baffles are the same width knockdown and mine, internal volume is within 5%.

Thanks guys, keep up the good work,

-Steve
 

Attachments

  • DSCF1029jpg.jpg
    DSCF1029jpg.jpg
    93.5 KB · Views: 76
For those who have not seen my latest thread:
Yessir3.jpg

Person sized boxes
Yessir14.jpg
 
Thanks Z, for some reason I thought the standard used the QSC waveguide. Looks like some bolt on drivers are next on the list...it has just begun.
 
Zilch said:
http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?t=219975

http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?t=219912

We are working to restore availability of the QSC 152i waveguides. Tell your Parts Express representative that you want/need them.

The Celestions are my current favorite over Seleniums at 2 kHz and above, their recommended minimum crossover frequency. I've crossed them at 2.1 kHz with the buyout 6.5s over there.... :yes:
Click to expand...

I scanned at least 30 of those pages and didn't see any information on that crossover. It seemed that you were moving away from the buyout woofers as they weren't a sustainable project.

Would you be willing to share that crossover with me?

I have 8 buyout woofers looking for a good home in wedge.

Also, what sort of ill affects would happen if I put a Pyle PH612 on its side next to the woofers just like the Klipsch 650 speaker?
 
greg_mitch said:
I scanned at least 30 of those pages and didn't see any information on that crossover. It seemed that you were moving away from the buyout woofers as they weren't a sustainable project.
Click to expand...
I owe that "Mini" thread some schematics and PCD data. The pace has been quite rapid working through the directivity research, but I will be getting back to the buyout K6.5s to complete a couple of builds, a TMM 2.5 in the PE MTM-0.75 cabs, which are now on order, as well as a TM in TW-0.50.

greg_mitch said:
Also, what sort of ill affects would happen if I put a Pyle PH612 on its side next to the woofers just like the Klipsch 650 speaker?
Click to expand...
The dispersion in that vertical orientation is only 50°, and limited further by interference from the woofer(s) next to it narrowing the usable forward lobe, whereas Toole recommends a far wider pattern, up to a full 180°, if possible, for surround duty. That's not to say it won't work (Klipsch DOES make a product that way), rather, merely that there may be better solutions. As I stated in the thread, however, we don't have a good answer yet. For my own part, I'm working with some alternative defined-directivity waveguides to meet Toole's criteria, but that concept is still well short of being ready for prime time. For now, a standard orientation TW wedge may be the best option.... :dunno:
 
Zilch said:
14" W x 10" H
Click to expand...

Thanks. That seems bigger than I thought so I'll stick with Standard Econowave size for now.

The Seleniums had arrived last night :thmbsp: and out of curiosity I put it on top of my dipoles as the tweeters. It was very quick to design the xo (2.2khz LR2 gives 1.5khz acoustic LR4). No caps... how fragile are these CDs btw?

They definitely sound different than dome tweeters and I liked them. I thought the highs were less sparkling but that may be more accurate representation. We'll see :)

From the few hours that I listened to it, I could not fault the Seleniums. They are clean sounding. There was absolutely no coloration from the WG.

Good weather is forcasted in Melbourne this weekend so I'm looking forward to building the cabs and do proper measurements.
 
gainphile said:
They definitely sound different than dome tweeters and I liked them. I thought the highs were less sparkling but that may be more accurate representation. We'll see :)

From the few hours that I listened to it, I could not fault the Seleniums. They are clean sounding. There was absolutely no coloration from the WG.
Click to expand...
It's constant directivity you're hearing, perhaps for the first time. I was recently ridiculed for an implicit suggestion that Linkwitz's Orion might be well served by one of the smaller PT waveguides you have on order. ;)

gainphile said:
The Seleniums had arrived last night :thmbsp: and out of curiosity I put it on top of my dipoles as the tweeters. It was very quick to design the xo (2.2khz LR2 gives 1.5khz acoustic LR4). No caps... how fragile are these CDs btw?
Click to expand...
Don't put full-range signal to them -- always a highpass, or a protection cap, at least, 30 - 47 uF, in series. They don't like low frequencies of any power; small-signal impedance testing down low (<5 ma) is O.K., tho.... :yes:
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom