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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Vaughn said:
Thanks for the response, I appreciate it:yes: Yes, I have used the DE250/LE14A combo before but I didn't "optimize" the aesthetics of my cab and ended up moving them out of the living room and eventually parting them out. This time around I will ensure they are attractive enough! I think the first time around I used the stock LE14A variant and changed one of the resistors in the hp to 16 ohms, if memory serves. It was terrific sounding just like that, I just wanted to check in to see if any further evolution has occurred with this combo. I'll do some more digging and see if I can find the info you refer to.



Well I happened to get a sweet deal on a pair of QSC waveguides and the DE250's so availability isn't an issue.

I think I am going to just build the cabs with the QSC wg's and make the crossovers outboard for future tweaking:smoke:
Click to expand...

I love that combo, DE 250 and QSC. I use it with JBL 2235H and the deluxe crossover. I added the zobel from JBL 4430 which seemed to help the bass.
I am trying to get up to speed with PCD and measurement so I can create FRD files and ZMA files so I can tweek the "Deluxe" crossover I am using now to better work with the 2235H.

Russellc
 
I do lust for the 2235H but I'm going to have to find a screaming good deal on a pair to make that a reality. Maybe I'll find a pair at Goodwill?:scratch2:
 
I would not be afraid to look into some of the RCF woofers that PE is offering!! Even some of those older 15" EV woofers from the TL15-2 that I used worked quite well!!
DC
 
Vaughn said:
I do lust for the 2235H but I'm going to have to find a screaming good deal on a pair to make that a reality. Maybe I'll find a pair at Goodwill?:scratch2:
Click to expand...

Find 2225H blown. Inquire to Gordon as to an excellent aftermarket 2235H wanna be recone kit.....

Russellc
 
Which parts list for NLA Advent w/square woofer magnet?

Ready to order parts, I'm using the NLA Utility cabinet, with 10" frame, and square woofer magnets.
Which list do I use, 4 ohm, 8 ohm or 16 ohm?

Rick




Zilch said:
Design concept: An inexpensive ($188/pair) pre-engineered compression driver/waveguide/crossover high frequency section suitable for mating with various woofers to facilitate building DIY two-way speaker systems.


Compression Driver: Selenium D220Ti, thread-on version, 8 Ohms:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=264-270

Alternate Selenium D2500Ti-Nd, 8 Ohms. The same diaphragm in a more compact and lighter package particularly suited for use with smaller waveguides. More expensive than D220Ti:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-274&FTR=264-274


Waveguide: JBL 1" thread-on Progressive Transition, Part# 338800-001, 90° x 50° dispersion pattern, flange dimensions 12" W x 6.5" H, 6.25" deep including D220Ti driver, 5.625" using D2500Ti-Nd, $9.90 each. Optional flange mounting gasket Part# 351577-001.

Alternate "Mini" PT waveguide for smaller projects, Part# 364914-001, 90° x 90° dispersion pattern, flange dimensions 6" x 6", 4" deep to rear of flange with D220Ti driver, 3.375" using D2500Ti-Nd, $6.00 each.

Also for smaller projects, PT-D95HF-1 waveguide Part# 364700-001, 90° x 50° dispersion, flange dimensions 8" x 8", 7.625" deep to rear of flange with D220Ti driver, 7.125" including D2500Ti-Nd, $14 each.

Order these JBL waveguides direct from JBL Pro Parts with credit card:

http://www.jblproservice.com/forms/parts_order1.html

Pyle Pro PH612 waveguide, equivalent to the larger 12" W x 6.5" H JBL product, is also available from Parts Express, part #292-2572:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=292-2572

Dayton's clone:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=270-318

Though unconfirmed, apparently also available in Australia from DJ City:

http://www.djcity.com.au/products/yd...07mm_1025.html


Crossover: Highpass filter with CD compensation for this specific driver/waveguide combination. Includes generic 1.2 kHz lowpass filter for 8-Ohm woofer, which builders should "fine tune" for the specific woofer used:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=151281&d=1242968714


Parts List: Three versions, one for each of three standard woofer impedances:

http://home.comcast.net/~dnewma04/EconowaveBoM.htm


Board Layout:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=133068&stc=1&d=1233530586


Printed Circuit Version:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2636636#post2636636


Integral Input Crossover Mounting:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2766696#post2766696


Variants: See text.

1) For high efficiency woofers above 95 dB/1W sensitivity, use this version of the highpass filter so that the L-Pad operates near the middle of its range:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=151282&d=1242968714

Note: May also be supplemented with a calculated fixed L-Pad to reduce high frequency driver sensitivity to a specifically desired level or adjustment range.

2) 900 Hz lowpass for JBL LE14A woofer:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=151339&stc=1&d=1243017683

3) Advice regarding passive biamping with tube amp HF:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2416284#post2416284

4) Charge-coupled implementation of the standard circuit:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=101428&d=1217293889

5) Custom attenuation:

http://www.audioroundtable.com/PiSpeakers/messages/1278.html

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2238704#post2238704


Driver Polarity:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2760384#post2760384


System Designs:

1) EconoWave "Standard" Kit:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3383067#post3383067

2) EconoWave "Deluxe" Kit:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3448405#post3448405

3) Econowave 4x Kit:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3843177#post3843177
Click to expand...
 
GordonW said:
8 ohm. :thmbsp:

Regards,
Gordon.
Click to expand...

Thanks Gordon...
I decided to do the 1st pair stock, replace all crossover caps/resistors and use that pair as a reference and build Pete B's BCS box....which will be for my daughter.
I went a little higher grade on the parts, do you think there will be a noticeable sonic improvement with the better parts and by-pass caps?

Crossover parts for Advents:

027-450 Dayton DFFC-0.01 0.01uF 400V By-Pass Capacitor
091-1245 Dayton BPA-38G HD Binding Post Pair Gold
005-1 Mills 1 Ohm 12W Non-Inductive Resistor
005-1.5 Mills 1.5 Ohm 12W Non-Inductive Resistor
027-236 Dayton PMPC-6.2 6.2uF 250V Precision Audio Capacitor
027-238 Dayton PMPC-6.8 6.8uF 250V Precision Audio Capacitor

I have a second pair of NLA Advents with the nice wood cabinets that I will do the complete Econo-wave upgrade to. I need to either buy a kit to rebuild the cones or find new woofers as a previous owner got some sort of glue all over the woofer cones in a horrible attempt to fix the rotted surrounds.
Looking forward to both projects.

Rick
 
I've got a pair of Pioneer HPM-100's that I'm tempted to turn into a 2-way. However, I'm wondering if one of Parts Express pre-assembled crossovers would be OK. This is not going into a main system, but I'd like to it sound decent. I REALLY don't want to build a crossover, and I don't want to spend a bunch of time on this, so I'm looking for the easy way out. I'm looking at:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=260-140

or

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=260-142

I'd use the HPM 100 cabinet and woofer, the Selenium D220Ti, and this:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/sho...8&AID=1457538&PID=3696791&SID=skim1010X497171

Thoughts, or am I getting on the wrong track entirely?
 
whell,

The x-over you picked does not include HF compensation for the horn. This one does http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-266. The x-over was designed to work with the D220Ti but I have no clue how it would work with the HPM 100 woofer.

Building the eWave crossover isn't difficult if you start with the boards (pm Zilch for info). Just stick on the components and solder. Not as easy as buying a complete unit but dozens of us have done it as a first or second build with no problems.

I'm sure someone will chime in regarding the suitability of using the HPM 100 woofer for eWave.
 
Thanks for the tip on that Selenium crossover. I'd not even seen those. The price is a bit of a turn-off, but it does seem to be the right tool for the job.

I really NEED to avoid a crossover build. Time and circumstances just won't allow for it. I need this to be a simple, quick assembly job if I'm going to do it.

Stock, the HPM crossover is designed so that the woof hands off to the midrange at 3000 HZ. The 1500 HZ crossover point on the Selenium crossover should be fine, correct?
 
CTS ewave(thanks Gordon)

Hey Folsk,
I finally have the right speakers to build a real ewave. No more farting around trying to piece meal it. I located two sets of cts woofers and sent them to Gordon for a recone. As it turns out, they are ready for the trip home.

What I have are a set of 15" and a set of 18" stamped aluminum woofers.
The 15" are reconed ideally for an ewave. Good down to about 45hz. The 18" is good down to about 20hz(IIRC). I already have the xover built, the horns and the selenium driver for the ewave. I'll need to build some cabinets too. This will start once the drivers arrive.

I want to build a standard ewave with the 15" and the seleneium driver. I would then like to build a sub for each. Here is where I start getting a bit lost.

The 15" has an spl of about 95/96, the 18" has an spl of 92. I can biamp, which is a very strong possibility, or I can build a xover for the sub. Maybe use a xover point of 50-125hz. Let te sub pickup everything on the bottom.

How does one construct a xover for the sub? How would one determine the system impedance of the ewave? Will an attenuator be needed for the ewave to bring it down to the sub level?

I am rather obtuse on claculation and understanding things, but I can build once I have plans. So, can anyone help me?

Thanks,
Mark


Edit: I was just looking at PE

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-805

This sub woof amplifier might just be all I need to accomplish my goals. I think this will be the routte I go.
 
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Hi J

Yes the plate amp would be the best to use. Electronic crossover is the best for subs that way you can choose your slope and gain. A passive would cost quite a bit as the coil you would need is big and expensive and that would only be for a 6db roll off.
Sounds like a great project.:thmbsp:
 
Hey Junior, I will probably have that and my Maggie amps done by feb 5th. I will bring them to the get together if you want. I would love to hear others impressions of the set up.
 
whell said:
Thanks for the tip on that Selenium crossover. I'd not even seen those. The price is a bit of a turn-off, but it does seem to be the right tool for the job.

I really NEED to avoid a crossover build. Time and circumstances just won't allow for it. I need this to be a simple, quick assembly job if I'm going to do it.

Stock, the HPM crossover is designed so that the woof hands off to the midrange at 3000 HZ. The 1500 HZ crossover point on the Selenium crossover should be fine, correct?
Click to expand...

Actually, you dont need nor want to avoid that, it is the heart and soul of the project. If you dont have time for that, there is no way you'll have time for the other, much more time consuming portion of the build. Otherwise, you're just throwing parts together and what ever results is not Econowave.....Just get the parts and connect with wire nuts or those little modular thinies from radio shack. Without proper crossover you are wasting your time and money.

Russellc
 
whell said:
Thanks for the tip on that Selenium crossover. I'd not even seen those. The price is a bit of a turn-off, but it does seem to be the right tool for the job.

I really NEED to avoid a crossover build. Time and circumstances just won't allow for it. I need this to be a simple, quick assembly job if I'm going to do it.

Stock, the HPM crossover is designed so that the woof hands off to the midrange at 3000 HZ. The 1500 HZ crossover point on the Selenium crossover should be fine, correct?
Click to expand...

Likely not. The "Accoustic" crossover point of e'wave is around 1500 or so, but the actual "electrical" point is closer to 3000. Crossing the Selenium too low will not sound tastey. If you want E'wave, you will have to have an Ewave crossover there is simply no way around it. Quite whinning and do it!:thmbsp:

Russellc
 
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whell said:
I've got a pair of Pioneer HPM-100's that I'm tempted to turn into a 2-way. However, I'm wondering if one of Parts Express pre-assembled crossovers would be OK. This is not going into a main system, but I'd like to it sound decent. I REALLY don't want to build a crossover, and I don't want to spend a bunch of time on this, so I'm looking for the easy way out. I'm looking at:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=260-140

or

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=260-142

I'd use the HPM 100 cabinet and woofer, the Selenium D220Ti, and this:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/sho...8&AID=1457538&PID=3696791&SID=skim1010X497171

Thoughts, or am I getting on the wrong track entirely?
Click to expand...

Hi Mike, have the parts shipped to me and I'll build the xovers for you as a kindness for the tape deck and tapes.

Keggers eWaves are built from HPM100s and sound great.

Here is the link to Keg's build

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2101920&postcount=1014



.
 
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