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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

skywave-rider said:
Greg,
I thought Zilch had FRD and ZMA files over there for importing into crossover design software, but maybe there are no TS parameters posted. I should be able to put one of the Klipsch buyouts on WT for data to determine box info.
Click to expand...

I was planning on going with the D220ti and the 6512 Horn with the standard crossover.

If you could point me to a box volume and starting point crossover for the LF I would be very happy and able to move forward!
:thmbsp:
 
Anything regarding buyout woofers and waveguides is going to be found or posted in the E-Wave Mini thread over there. I consider buyout's not being "sustainable" as basis for not documenting them in "Flex It." That doesn't mean I'm not investigating them; the TWW will be on deck by the end of next week here:

http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?t=219975

Those threads are on a different forum in order to expand exposure to EconoWave in a more technical venue that anyone can acesss. The crossovers are designed via processing in Jeff Bagby's PCD software, for which PE Tech Talk is "home," and thus, well supported by others, including its author, there.... :yes:

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Z, I really like that speaker. Nice and tidy and compact. As you know, I used the 6x6 on my Oblawaves and really like the sound of it. I actually like the 6x6 better than the standard WG or the QSC.

That being said, I also have to take into account that it had a 2' x 4' baffle board and I can't imagine what that did to the sound......but it did sound good.
 
djnagle said:
Z, I really like that speaker. Nice and tidy and compact. As you know, I used the 6x6 on my Oblawaves and really like the sound of it. I actually like the 6x6 better than the standard WG or the QSC.
Click to expand...
Upon first seeing it last night, Wiredbecker's comment was that we had majorly stepped up EconoWave design with this. I have been talking about it for quite a long time here, and some of the custom E-Waves others have built have demonstrated what can be done.

The diffraction mitigation studies I recently documented in the Tech Talk threads demonstrate that when building with smaller drivers, the baffle signature of the woofer contributes significantly to the system performance; it's important to scale the baffle and cabinet dimensions accordingly, and to pay close attention to such details as flush-mounting the components and snugging the woofer and waveguide together like this to take fullest advantage of the constant-directivity features of EconoWave in more diminutive designs.

I have more of these coming in the various available Dayton cabs here; it's a killer combo, and PE's free shipping's certainly a nice kick-start.... :thmbsp:
 
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I have a pair fo Best Buy Insignia for my computer speakes and I just don't listen to them much because of all the nasty things that are there in stock form. I looked at all the crossover upgrades and thought, that I might want to just use the cabs with a new baffle board and do the 6" woof and 6x6 wg. Maybe over kill for a computer desk, but I spend more time here than listening to my main system.
 
OK, after just posting, I grabbed the tape measure and it looks like the 6x6" WG (if it is 6x6" from outside to outside) will fit on the Insignia high gloss stock baffle board. Might need a little trimming, but it would work. Of course, I would have to paint the WG gloss black to match the baffle board.

I might even be able to get away with using the stock woofer without the tweet in the middle. I would have to port out the back because the WG would take up the front port.

Hummmmm.... This might be a cheap solution as you would get the cab AND woof for $50.00

As you can see from the pic, the start of the round over for the woof is 5.5" from the bottom (which would in the end be the top) so a little trimming would be in order but if done right could look good. The optimum would be to make a router jig that would inset the trimmed WG into the purdy black BB.

Flip the speaker up side down and bob's your uncle.

You thoughts???
 

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Here is the Insignia woofer (only) graph after a bit of tweeking. There is a 5.3db dump starting at 1khz. I don't know what effect that will have but I think this might be a worthy project.
 

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Can someone throw me a bone?

I posted this a couple times, and I know it is somewhat off topic, but this is the only thread I know that is using an L-pad switch in the crossover...and, I did state that I'm going to Econo-wave the second pair :D

some help and suggestions would be greatly appreciated...

Rick



rich121 said:
I have 2 pairs of NLA Advents that I am going to upgrade/mod, the 1st pair, I am going to only replace the crossover and keep stock for a reference. The second pair, I will do the full Econo-Wave upgrade/mods.

The crossover parts I have already ordered for the "stock" Advent are:

027-450 Dayton DFFC-0.01 0.01uF 400V By-Pass Capacitor
091-1245 Dayton BPA-38G HD Binding Post Pair Gold
005-1 Mills 1 Ohm 12W Non-Inductive Resistor
005-1.5 Mills 1.5 Ohm 12W Non-Inductive Resistor
027-236 Dayton PMPC-6.2 6.2uF 250V Precision Audio Capacitor
027-238 Dayton PMPC-6.8 6.8uF 250V Precision Audio Capacitor

I also ordered a new pair of DPDT on-off-on silver contact toggle switches. I was thinking, if I can use an L-pad instead of the toggle switches, that would give much more control.
I'm probably missing a similar post, but believe me, I have searched and searched and could not find any information on how to do this.
Is there information, especially a schematic, on what is needed to replace the toggle switchs with an L-pad or similiar control?

Rick
Click to expand...
 
Go to the "Speaker Forum Reference Thread" sticky near the top of the index page.

Click the link to Advents, first on the list.

Click the link to Crossover Information.

Scroll down to NLA and examine the schematic.

The switch has three positions: Extended, Decreased, and Normal.

In the Extended position, inductor L1 in the woofer circuit and resistors R1 and R2 attenuating the tweeter are bypassed.

In the Decreased position, all three are in their respective circuits.

In the Normal position, only R1 is bypassed.

The circuit is not amenable to modding via mere substitution of an L-pad.

You are in effect asking that someone redesign the NLA crossover for you.

Ain't gonna happen -- install a new switch if desired.... :yes:

920163/12311=74.7432​
 
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Thanks guys for answering my post. At least I now know what is the easiest/best route to take.

Rick

skywave-rider said:
Hi Rich. Yes, I am an insomniac...

I found a schematic reverse engineered by Pete B:
http://web.archive.org/web/20080304020605/http://baselaudiolabs.googlepages.com/ADVENT_LA_XO.html

A quick look at the schematic leads me to believe that an L pad can not do what the switches are doing in the stock x-o. They are literally switching in/out (bypassing) components. Check it out.

EDIT: I see Zilch beat me to it.
Click to expand...
 
djnagle said:
I thought that too, but then started wondering if it really matters. If the sitting position is 15 feet away, can you really hear the effects of the greater distance between woof and horn?
Click to expand...

think mine is around 12-13 inches.....Pretty big really....

Russellc
 
DC300 as in E-Wave "Standard?"

Indeterminate, but likely not bunk.

I built in 1.6 cuft without any bass response analysis other than measuring the actual outcome, and listeners liked the sound of them at the NorCal DIY demo, but they were prototypes leaving tuning optimization to other builders. Each time I moved the baffle forward with alternative driver loads, the volume went up and the tuning down. Best I can offer is that the 2" duct pair in those protos is too small, and the tuning too low. Trust the models to get closer to a suitable alignment.... :yes:
 
Help! I'm going to "E-wave" a pair of CSW model 6 speakers I own, but my horn choices are limited by the shallow depth of my cabinets. I've narrowed my choices down to the Selenium Hm17-25 or the B&C ME10, to be paired with the Selenium 220. I need to choose, they are different mounts and I want to get it right the first time. My x-over will be at 2K, using the stock woofer (for now). Which horn would be my best choice? Thanks!
 
Well, another pair is up and running.

Standard 6512-type waveguide, with D210Ti drivers (had a pair of the originals around, decided to use them), and JBL 128H woofer/PR300 passive radiator in a cabinet of 2 cubic feet (decided to use that, rather than the LE14s, as I was able to get the 128Hs up and ready to run, well before I could get a proper recone kit in for the LE14s).

Due to the rising-response of the 128H above 1KHz, I used a slightly modified LE14-variant crossover (2mH woofer choke, but with a 10uf cap instead of the 12uf, and a Zobel of about 7 ohms and 12uf, so far... may do some re-tweaking).

Amazingly "articulate" and "detailed" sound. I wonder if I'm "choking off" the midrange region a bit much (it seems to measure pretty flat, but "sounds" a little "laid-back"). Also, it's relatively low-efficiency (though, the L150, which this woofer and passive combo came from, is rated at only 89dB sensitivity, IIRC?). May play around with the Zobel and lowpass a bit more... to see if I can coax a little more output from it...

In all, though, even if this is as good as it gets... boy, it really GETS INTO the details in the music. Extremely well-behaved bass response (tight, "quick", but with very good LF extension). I credit some of that to the extremely-low-distortion of the SFG-magnet 128H with Aquaplas-coated woofer cone... it may be just that the lack of distortion makes it seem a little more "polite". I could live with that, if that's the issue. I can always find a bigger amp (it's currently on only 40w/ch; 100-150w/ch would be a cakewalk for the drivers). :D

Regards,
Gordon.
 
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Spasticteapot said:
Does anyone know if the DC300's T/S specs are bunk? Zilch built up a pair with far less bass response than WinISD indicates.
Click to expand...

I don't have the capability to measure T/S. However using the published specs and a large enclosure (5 ft3) They produce plenty of smooth and very deep bass. They are a little limited in power handling but are efficient enough to play quite loud in my 20x25 ft listening room.
 
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