juniorJBL
SUB 1500 :)
Probably closer to 1500+ pair.
Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker
- Thread starter Zilch
- Start date
Probably closer to 1500+ pair.
Thousands is probably a stretch, but I wouldn't be surprised if hundreds and hundreds weren't the real and actual count.... :yes:
I will have mine done before the weekend is out.
The components will be:
the 95db high sensitivy crossover(listed on the first page) built by me
A pair of GordonW's 15" mix and match magic woofers. Reconed by him. IIRC. about 30-1500 flat at 95 spl 1w/1m
The selenium d210ti drives and the selenium horns.
The cabs I was given by local AK'er brainshamsher. They are 6 cubic foot cabs made from 3/4" particle board. Braced with 3/4x3/4 battons and some 2x4's.
The box is tuned to 19.5 hz.
I just need to assemble them, as soon as I am done doing the honey do's they will get my attention.
The components will be:
the 95db high sensitivy crossover(listed on the first page) built by me
A pair of GordonW's 15" mix and match magic woofers. Reconed by him. IIRC. about 30-1500 flat at 95 spl 1w/1m
The selenium d210ti drives and the selenium horns.
The cabs I was given by local AK'er brainshamsher. They are 6 cubic foot cabs made from 3/4" particle board. Braced with 3/4x3/4 battons and some 2x4's.
The box is tuned to 19.5 hz.
I just need to assemble them, as soon as I am done doing the honey do's they will get my attention.
I definitely think there are at least hundreds. The only reason I posted up mine was to add to the official count. Wanted Z and all the others that have worked so hard on this over the years that they were being heard.
truth seeker
Member
You guys are wonderful...
:tresbon: 
It's all most "wondermously" gratifying to me.
The word of the year is "Autotelic"... :thmbsp:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autotelic
The word of the year is "Autotelic"... :thmbsp:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autotelic
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wilberforce
Active Member
Every time I see Advent "fried egg" tweeters for sale on that auction site I think, ah, another Econowave!
And there are usually tons of them for sale...
RamblinE
(╯°□°)╯彡┻━┻
Hey, I've got a lot of reading and research to do before I attempt my own econowave project but I was wondering if the woofers from a pair of KLH 9250B floor standing three ways were worth keeping for the day when I can start a project. I was honestly just going to trash the speakers.
Duffinator
Spin The Black Circle
They are noted in the honorary E'Wave section. :yes:
Hi Ram, I can't find much information on the KLH 9250B. I did see that the max cabinet depth is 9.5 in and I "think" that is deep enough for the Pyle horn and Selenium compression driver. We need to know how high the woofer goes to ensure that it will cross well into the crossover range.
guys, hoping you can help... i sent the following to zilch in a pm, to which he advised that the questions would be better posed here. if you can help, please direct me in the right way:
Zilch,
You probably get this quite a bit, but i was hoping that you might take some time to clear up a few things for me.
I do a lot of car audio, and in my participation on a forum, a user had put up a build log of early production Gedlee Nathans. I asked a few questions about building it on my own, and this individual turned me here. I have horns in my car audio system, B&C DE500's matched to some JBL 2119h's providing midrange duty. I love it, and would love to be able to improve over my Klipsch RF series hometheater set up.
Since then, I have spent probably the last month sifting through all the information in here, probably about the first 70 pages or so. I find it unlikely that i'll make it through all 830, and I am ready to build now.
I do have a few questions, and perhaps if you could mentor me in this project that would be swell. I can build things, but crossovers are completely over my head.
With that said, one question i have is whether anyone is attaching high pass filters to the bottom end of the woofers, to prevent damage or destruction due to high excursion after the port tuning?
Another question: It seems as though most of what i have seen thus far, are old speakers/cabs being used with the HF portion of your project. What about building an entire speaker from scratch? I have some drivers that I think might work but I'm a little unsure on how you choose your LF drivers in your projects. Of the two that I have, I can use a B&C 10nw64 or a JBL 2206h. Would either of those work?
I gather most people are using old tube amps, etc. on these, but would a regular HT reciever (Denon) do the job well? If placed in a HT environment, what would someone do for centers or rears, assuming some space requirements?
Do I have a bit more flexibility on size of the enclosure and woofer if I am integrating with a subwoofer?
I would appreciate any insight you can give me. Thanks for your consideration.
Zilch,
You probably get this quite a bit, but i was hoping that you might take some time to clear up a few things for me.
I do a lot of car audio, and in my participation on a forum, a user had put up a build log of early production Gedlee Nathans. I asked a few questions about building it on my own, and this individual turned me here. I have horns in my car audio system, B&C DE500's matched to some JBL 2119h's providing midrange duty. I love it, and would love to be able to improve over my Klipsch RF series hometheater set up.
Since then, I have spent probably the last month sifting through all the information in here, probably about the first 70 pages or so. I find it unlikely that i'll make it through all 830, and I am ready to build now.
I do have a few questions, and perhaps if you could mentor me in this project that would be swell. I can build things, but crossovers are completely over my head.
With that said, one question i have is whether anyone is attaching high pass filters to the bottom end of the woofers, to prevent damage or destruction due to high excursion after the port tuning?
Another question: It seems as though most of what i have seen thus far, are old speakers/cabs being used with the HF portion of your project. What about building an entire speaker from scratch? I have some drivers that I think might work but I'm a little unsure on how you choose your LF drivers in your projects. Of the two that I have, I can use a B&C 10nw64 or a JBL 2206h. Would either of those work?
I gather most people are using old tube amps, etc. on these, but would a regular HT reciever (Denon) do the job well? If placed in a HT environment, what would someone do for centers or rears, assuming some space requirements?
Do I have a bit more flexibility on size of the enclosure and woofer if I am integrating with a subwoofer?
I would appreciate any insight you can give me. Thanks for your consideration.
truth seeker
Member
Those 2 things, along with sizing/tuning of the mid-bass enclosure would work best as a system. Balance them.
Certainly! nyuk, nyuk
Solid state amps work fine, they are all that some of us have, atm
Some of the recent developments by zilch are suited as surrounds. Check his thread over on PETech Talk:
http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?t=215536
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Clmrt
Just thrilled.
"...is attaching high pass filters to the bottom end of the woofers, to prevent damage or destruction due to high excursion after the port tuning? "
Depending on the target tuning, PA speaker MFRs commonly recommend a hi-pass filter if the LF capability is above 35hz. This is to prevent overexcursion of the woofer. If you use 2206s, you may find your LF cutoff is around 80hz, making a HPF / Subwoofer a necessity.
"...I'm a little unsure on how you choose your LF drivers in your projects. Of the two that I have, I can use a B&C 10nw64 or a JBL 2206h. Would either of those work?"
Your goals determine what will work. If you want HiFi, full range loudspeakers, you need a woofer / box combo that will cover 40hz-900hz. If you want sub/sat, a woofer that will cover 80hz-up will work. Your project should have cabinet size as the first factor that guides your choices. If you have room for a monitor you needn't look at 15" drivers, etc. Download and play with WinISD.
"..but would a regular HT reciever (Denon) do the job well?"
The Ewave doesn't seem to be difficult to drive.
"If placed in a HT environment, what would someone do for centers or rears, assuming some space requirements?"
Mini-wave?
"Do I have a bit more flexibility on size of the enclosure and woofer if I am integrating with a subwoofer?"
Depends on the mains you decide you need. Some use 15" PA drivers that need a sub. 2206 will need a sub. Go small and you lose sensitivity, but some smaller, 1.5 cu.ft. designs do well in smaller rooms without subs, and sufficient power for the application.
Design examples for a 15" pro driver -
http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/290-420c.pdf
WinISD -
http://www.linearteam.dk/default.aspx?pageid=winisd
Depending on the target tuning, PA speaker MFRs commonly recommend a hi-pass filter if the LF capability is above 35hz. This is to prevent overexcursion of the woofer. If you use 2206s, you may find your LF cutoff is around 80hz, making a HPF / Subwoofer a necessity.
"...I'm a little unsure on how you choose your LF drivers in your projects. Of the two that I have, I can use a B&C 10nw64 or a JBL 2206h. Would either of those work?"
Your goals determine what will work. If you want HiFi, full range loudspeakers, you need a woofer / box combo that will cover 40hz-900hz. If you want sub/sat, a woofer that will cover 80hz-up will work. Your project should have cabinet size as the first factor that guides your choices. If you have room for a monitor you needn't look at 15" drivers, etc. Download and play with WinISD.
"..but would a regular HT reciever (Denon) do the job well?"
The Ewave doesn't seem to be difficult to drive.
"If placed in a HT environment, what would someone do for centers or rears, assuming some space requirements?"
Mini-wave?
"Do I have a bit more flexibility on size of the enclosure and woofer if I am integrating with a subwoofer?"
Depends on the mains you decide you need. Some use 15" PA drivers that need a sub. 2206 will need a sub. Go small and you lose sensitivity, but some smaller, 1.5 cu.ft. designs do well in smaller rooms without subs, and sufficient power for the application.
Design examples for a 15" pro driver -
http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/290-420c.pdf
WinISD -
http://www.linearteam.dk/default.aspx?pageid=winisd
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Clmrt
Just thrilled.
If I did a 2206H -
TS parameters:
http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Thiele Small Parameters/Theile Parameters.pdf
Loading them into WinISD, best extension, smooth curve is from 2 cu ft box tuned to 60hz by 2x 3"x3" vents. Vent airspeed is 24m/s with 100 watts, and I don't know if that's audible. Since the LF cutoff is 60hz, you'll need to limit input power below 60hz. You can still play it without a HPF, but it'll be lean sounding. You could even EQ the low end a bit, but you'd have to limit overall SPL or risk driver damage. It'd still be loud enough for home use, I'm sure, but pipe organs / techno infrabass is out.
Anyway, that's a starting point in the process. Looking at the response plot of a 2206 will help you decide if the 900hz version or the 1200hz xo version is appropriate.
http://www.jblpro.com/pub/components/2206.pdf
Then the box is built, baffle cut, install and test.
Then build your sub!
TS parameters:
http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Thiele Small Parameters/Theile Parameters.pdf
Loading them into WinISD, best extension, smooth curve is from 2 cu ft box tuned to 60hz by 2x 3"x3" vents. Vent airspeed is 24m/s with 100 watts, and I don't know if that's audible. Since the LF cutoff is 60hz, you'll need to limit input power below 60hz. You can still play it without a HPF, but it'll be lean sounding. You could even EQ the low end a bit, but you'd have to limit overall SPL or risk driver damage. It'd still be loud enough for home use, I'm sure, but pipe organs / techno infrabass is out.
Anyway, that's a starting point in the process. Looking at the response plot of a 2206 will help you decide if the 900hz version or the 1200hz xo version is appropriate.
http://www.jblpro.com/pub/components/2206.pdf
Then the box is built, baffle cut, install and test.
Then build your sub!
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Pio1980
AK Member
The choice of SS vs tubes depends on the efficiency of the particular speaker build vs available power and expectations of loudness average/peaks vs the venue. Generally, sealed 2-way systems like Larger/"smaller" Advent E/W conversions with good LF extension will need significantly higher clean power than vented larger systems with good LF extension.
excellent help guys, thanks.
i plotted out the B&C drivers and they look good with .5 cubes with a tuning of 65hz. since i have to recone the JBL's, i figured I'll stick with the 10's for now.
So, more questions:
From what I understand the B&C DE250 CD is a straight swap into the econo crossover, correct? any problem with using the pyle pro jbl knock off waveguide with a screw on adapter plate?
Can someone help me figure out how to augment the <95db crossover so I can supply my mid with a 70-80 hz 4th order crossover? That will make a nice transition into the subs I have planned, but the implementation is confusing. Hell, the schematic is confusing too. How do you read these things?
On a separate note, for a center channel speaker, suppose I wanted to do a MTM configuration to keep it slim on height. Does this screw up the crossover and result and require a complete revamp, or would there be a simple fix to allow this. (Thinking maybe B&C DE250 flanked by 2 6.5 B&C mids, possibly 8's)
i plotted out the B&C drivers and they look good with .5 cubes with a tuning of 65hz. since i have to recone the JBL's, i figured I'll stick with the 10's for now.
So, more questions:
From what I understand the B&C DE250 CD is a straight swap into the econo crossover, correct? any problem with using the pyle pro jbl knock off waveguide with a screw on adapter plate?
Can someone help me figure out how to augment the <95db crossover so I can supply my mid with a 70-80 hz 4th order crossover? That will make a nice transition into the subs I have planned, but the implementation is confusing. Hell, the schematic is confusing too. How do you read these things?
On a separate note, for a center channel speaker, suppose I wanted to do a MTM configuration to keep it slim on height. Does this screw up the crossover and result and require a complete revamp, or would there be a simple fix to allow this. (Thinking maybe B&C DE250 flanked by 2 6.5 B&C mids, possibly 8's)
donprice
Wound up workin' at a gas station....
So, more questions:
From what I understand the B&C DE250 CD is a straight swap into the econo crossover, correct? any problem with using the pyle pro jbl knock off waveguide with a screw on adapter plate?
Can someone help me figure out how to augment the <95db crossover so I can supply my mid with a 70-80 hz 4th order crossover? That will make a nice transition into the subs I have planned, but the implementation is confusing. Hell, the schematic is confusing too. How do you read these things?
On a separate note, for a center channel speaker, suppose I wanted to do a MTM configuration to keep it slim on height. Does this screw up the crossover and result and require a complete revamp, or would there be a simple fix to allow this. (Thinking maybe B&C DE250 flanked by 2 6.5 B&C mids, possibly 8's)
More answers...
The threaded adapter has "issues" and should be avoided. Search the thread for "adapter" if you want to get into the details. We are hoping Parts Express can make the QSC waveguide available soon.
The crossovers for the Selenium and B&C drivers are not the same. They are similar and at least a couple of us are using the "wrong" crossover and enjoying them.
Not sure what you mean about crossing over to the mids from the subs. The HT receiver usually takes care of routing the LF (<80 Hz typical) to the subs so there is no passive crossover required for this task. Alternatively, I think some subwoofer amps may have a passive crossover built in to use with a standard 'full range" amp. Not sure if this was what you were asking....
MTM has not been tried that we know of. Plenty of discussion here and more more in the ewave mini thread here http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?t=219975&highlight=mini Unfortunately it isn't quite as simple as just turning a speaker over on its side. I think Z is going to tackle a 2.5-way horizontal speaker (TMM, not MTM) though it may take a while.