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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Hi folks, I'm new at this forum, this is my first posting, and it was interest for the Econowave that pulled me to this forum. This tread has been going on for over four years, with 14742 posts as I'm typing. Quite impressive.

I've posted a question regarding time-alignment at the bottom. If you want to skip my intro.

I have not built any speakers yet, but my interest have been there for a while. I've bought the loudspeaker cookbook and other books some years ago, but I guess I'll not earn an understanding for the theories before I start to build and experiment. For the moment I have some old Quad ESL63s that needs some new diaphragms, eht-boards etc. So I'm listening to some cheap Yamaha bookshelf speakers. I guess my interest for horn/waveguide-speakers came when I heard a pair of Avantgarde Duo speakers. Different from ESLs of course, more dynamic, and maybe a bit too much "front row" as I'm used to the "electrostatic space". I've been following, with great interest, some discussions, in Norwegian and US forums, regarding Le Cleach-, Iwata-, traxtric-, spherical wave-front- horns, and of course the GedLee waveguide . I've been dreaming about some seriously big horns that delivers way below 1000 Hz. But so far I've been turned off by expenses, and the size of the horns. So the econowave with a comparably high x-over frequency of 1200Hz looks like a good solution, relatively low-cost and compact.

Question (finally): I've been following a Norwegian tread on a seriously redesigned Avantgarde Trio system (new drivers and a new in-line-bass-tower) where the owner was stressing the importance of time-alignment of the drivers. Even for the tweeter with an x-over at 5000Hz. Now, I presume that the econowave is not time-aligned , unless one uses an electronic dsp-crossover or some advanced circuitry. So, are there someone here that have experimented with time-alignment of the drivers. And if so; do you think it is important to time-align the drivers in speaker system?
 
Khanate said:
Now, I presume that the econowave is not time-aligned , unless one uses an electronic dsp-crossover or some advanced circuitry. So, are there someone here that have experimented with time-alignment of the drivers. And if so; do you think it is important to time-align the drivers in speaker system?
Click to expand...

Welcome aboard!

Driver time alignment for ewaves (or anything similar) is influenced by the depth of the waveguide/horn which often puts the compression driver VC in nearly the same plane as the woofer VC. Of course time alignment and physical alignment aren't necessarily the same. Zilch (and others) discussed the topic extensively in the "Flex Your PCD Mettle" thread over at the Parts Express Tech Talk board. http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?215536-Flex-Your-PCD-Mettle&highlight=mettle

If I understand time alignment correctly (and there is a good chance I don't) it influences the direction of the forward lobe so getting it right is a good thing.
 
Jcricket said:
Hey Al,
Thanks. I finished the stands yesterday and I'll probab ly start the grills in a few.
I'll post some pics when I get them done.

I don't know what cts woofers typically spec out at. SInce they were used in the earlier klipsch, maybe you could look those up and get an idea.
Mark
Click to expand...

I'm sure my CTS woofer is different than your's Mark. I'm going to try to use the old Magnavox S073's that I have. I'll try to get pictures up tomorrow. I would think your woofer is better quality than what I have. One thing is for sure though... they are very efficient. I haven't been able to find any info on them at all. Still trying.

Lookin' forward to your pics!

Al
 
+1
I think you do understand it, Don.
I would add that to time align an EWave, you'd have to use a published design, for example one that Zilch and others have worked out system-wide, optimizing the forward axis, or have measuring equipment to custom build your own system.

donprice said:
Welcome aboard!

Driver time alignment for ewaves (or anything similar) is influenced by the depth of the waveguide/horn which often puts the compression driver VC in nearly the same plane as the woofer VC. Of course time alignment and physical alignment aren't necessarily the same. Zilch (and others) discussed the topic extensively in the "Flex Your PCD Mettle" thread over at the Parts Express Tech Talk board. http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?215536-Flex-Your-PCD-Mettle&highlight=mettle

If I understand time alignment correctly (and there is a good chance I don't) it influences the direction of the forward lobe so getting it right is a good thing.
Click to expand...
 
donprice said:
Welcome aboard!

Driver time alignment for ewaves (or anything similar) is influenced by the depth of the waveguide/horn which often puts the compression driver VC in nearly the same plane as the woofer VC. Of course time alignment and physical alignment aren't necessarily the same. Zilch (and others) discussed the topic extensively in the "Flex Your PCD Mettle" thread over at the Parts Express Tech Talk board. http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?215536-Flex-Your-PCD-Mettle&highlight=mettle

If I understand time alignment correctly (and there is a good chance I don't) it influences the direction of the forward lobe so getting it right is a good thing.
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot Don. I think you are right regarding the forward lobe. I think it was called an interference pattern in my physics-class some 25-30 years ago. At 1200 Hz the wavelength is about 11 inches long. So I would guess alignment within 1 inch would be pretty good, although I don't know of course.

Anyway, I'll check out your link. :-)

skywave-rider said:
+1
I think you do understand it, Don.
I would add that to time align an EWave, you'd have to use a published design, for example one that Zilch and others have worked out system-wide, optimizing the forward axis, or have measuring equipment to custom build your own system.
Click to expand...

Thanks Skywave. Measuring equipment is tempting me these days, as are dsp-x-overs. Anyway, a proven system is probably the best start. There seems to be a lot of different econowaves out there. So I guess I have to read, and read again, and decide for one of them.
 
2 things....


1 the dayton waveguides are on sale til 8-31-2012


2 can someone explain to me the function of R1, R2, and C3 in the crossover? I've pored over posts from Zilch and Wayne and read Pi's crossover document..
I know that the ratio of R1/R2 sets peaking at the crossover freq. But looking at the examples I'm not sure how to change HF compensation / attenuation.
What I'm after is to increase the comp/atten to give a lift to Selenium DH200 drivers in the VHF.
Specifically, changing C3 from .47 uf to .33 or even .22 does what exactly?

TNKS
 
I wonder what would happen if instead of using old fashioned foam that's been aroiund for ages someone stuffed the tweeter port with a certain type of speaker damping material that I believe I read that said is used on the newest Airbus airoplanes to stop high frequencies from traveling within certain spaces of the aircraft. Specifically the patented product that's avaible here (link below) and is said to work like magic or for all I know as an old time audiophile who remembers back the the heydey of Stereophile which was also said to make CD's sound better buy the use of green marking pens on the edge of CD's back in the day:

http://www.twaron-angelhair.com/index.php?item=twaron-angel-hair&action=page&group_id=9&lang=EN

I don't know if this stuff would work better or worse than foam but someone might ought to give it a try.
 
Got My H290C Parham Waveguides

I was on the road for a good portion of the Summer, so I had to delay the delivery of my H290C waveguides from Wayne (Pi Speakers.) Now they are here.

At 50 bucks they may be considered "econo," that's up to the builder. But I want to say they are excellent performers.

I will use them with AE TD12S woofers, which are being built as I speak. For now I have them set on top of my home econo rig and I like them better than the QSC HPR 152i I've been using for some time.

Here are some measurements from Wayne.

Thread here.

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Out of curiosity, what are the dimensions of that waveguide? I was suprised at how massive the QSC HPR 152i guides were compared to the Dayton/Pyles.
 
dodog said:
Out of curiosity, what are the dimensions of that waveguide? I was suprised at how massive the QSC HPR 152i guides were compared to the Dayton/Pyles.
Click to expand...

It's about 11.5" wide and 6.5" tall.
The depth is about 6".

Here's a comparo pic, sorry about the dust:

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Well, the QSC does have another 10° vertical beamwidth after all, for better or worse (mainly worse for the speaker style we discuss in this thread, one could argue).
 
That's a good point.
I think the QSC is excellent. :thmbsp:
But the Parham is better. :thmbsp::thmbsp:
The why's of that are discussed to some degree in the Audioroundtable link.
The compact footprint is a bonus. It has no "imaginary gonadotrophic effect."
I miss Zilch. : )
 
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