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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Well You have Punker who got a pair but he is running BMS on 811 horns I think and is just collecting cheap parts?

Cosmos is trying to find the "perfect" woofer amungst his stash of 9000 drivers, so when he finds that I guess then.

Squidward got sick then had addadicktome surgery so he's been laid up a little and hopefully back on track soon to.

Yep we've lost Ross to the never void, I'll try an find him. :dunno:

Then the other 3 are myself Andy and Dennis who all have been working on them. (2 done 1 to finish shortly I believe) :)
 
I'm still looking at other horn drivers not because I'm not satisfied with the Selenium 210
as I surely am very very happy with the results, but because I have other speakers like
the Tyler Accoustics which run the PSD-2002 driver I want to replace, then the HPM 10"
woofer I'd like to build something with, and way to many other project type speakers an
drivers I want to get up an running. As they say so many speakers so little time! HUMMPH!

Well off for ham here shortly this morning.......... UUHMM HAAAAMM!!!
 
I'll probably have some more up later today as I intend to finish off cab #2 and completely seal and add fiberglass the interior of #1 today.
Packers on Bye and Lions blacked out (yes, they suck THAT bad) so I won't en enticed by the TV to watch NFL.
 
Can't forget WoJek who also is trying to decide what cab and woof to use with his E-wave.

I got up late and am running to get over to Benton Harbor for a meeting tomorrow so I can write up anything about my ESS EWGs at the moment, but after a minor change that Keg suggested, they are REAL keepers. Later.
 
Zilch said:
Who else got SMAC waveguides that's MIA here? :dunno:
Click to expand...

Not yet MIA, but is SMAC the same as the JBL 338800-001 wave guide? I'll be interested in trying some foam plugs in them once I get things up and running. The waveguides I ordered early last week have not arrived - yet.

BTW, anyone else using a measurment setup other than the Behringer? I'm plannng to use "Room EQ Wizard", a freeware Java-based program, for measurements along with an AKG C1000 or a MXL 991 mic through my Presonus FireStudio audio interface to get some idea of measurements. It will take some calibration, I suspect, and is sufficiently different from the defacto standard being used here. My own confidence in the results will also take a bit of time. This is a stop-gap measure until I can sell off some other gear to finance the DEQ2496 and its ECM mic.

Cheers,

David
 
SMAC is the Southeastern Michigan Audio Club and we did a group buy on about 8 sets of horns and drivers. So far 3 of the 8 have posted some progress on theier projects, me, Keg, and Denny, so there's lots more results to be heard!!
 
OK, thanks...I'm sure that was buried somewhere in this thread. Now I understand your location reference, too.....:-)

Cheers,

David
 
Wow, what a read!

I spent a couple of hours this afternoon reading this thread from start to finish. There are some interesting side notes, which I followed all along as the thread developed, but a lot of them were not followed today. It offers a tremendous opportunity to learn what horns or "waveguides" are all about. And everyone who has tried the EconoWave has loved it.

My compliments to Zilch for starting the thread in response to a crying need for information about two way "horn" systems. Many AK'ers wanted info, and were unsure about how "horn" systems really sounded. The JBL waveguide, which was dirt cheap offered a great introduction, along with the Selenium D220Ti HF drivers.

Wayne Parham chipped in with some great info which ultimately led to the final crossover designs. Gordon Waters and Earl Geddes also provided some much needed input (Gordon on this forum, Geddes on another). Zilch, of course, offered his overall knowledge in so many ways. Many others, too numerous to name, hopped on the bandwagon early on, and gave the thread much needed impetus. My hat is off to all of you.

The thread was meant to be a "hands on" learning experience which would put the practitioner into a learning experience which would ultimately lead to the development of some real "I built it myself" speaker systems, and the sharing of two way systems knowledge. It has been exceedingly successful.

Early on, Zilch mentioned that the goal was to develop an HF system which would mate with virtually any woofer. As such, the crossover was just designed with 'beginning" values, since each woofer that might be used was unknown. Tweaking for the appropriate woofers, such as Zobels, and other FR circuits could be developed by the individual user. Also, HF comp could be affected by varying the HF compensation capacitor.

This thread has introduced many users to the fantastic performance of waveguide or "horn" systems, and the latest waveguide technology has eliminated the "honkiness" or shout of earlier horn systems.

There are still many lessons to be learned, and to read this thread completely is just the beginning. I still have two more EconoWave projects to complete, in addition to the printed circuit board making tutorial promised. We are just beginning. Several EconoWave projects are underway, and should be presented in this thread soon. Development of smaller JBL waveguides (which are really cheap), will open up the EconoWave to smaller bookshelf speakers. Much of this development has already been accomplished by Zilch, but the 6 inch square waveguide has not been touched yet. Several are working on it.

If you are a new reader, welcome aboard. Read the entire thread and follow along. You will become an informed reader, if not an "expert".
 
Thank you, Jack!

It's no small tribute due you, likewise, for engineering the crossover and HF compensation for EconoWave, not to mention your early and ongoing demonstrations of the versatility of this project in scores of different design implementations, every one a "Keeper."

Just when I think this can't get any better, along comes another E'Waver demonstrating an innovative appplication of these concepts in their own unique project. I watch every day with anxious anticipation for the next exciting presentation to appear in this thread.

I must say the extraordinary level of interest and participation by the many contributors has been a most gratifying experience for me personally, and my greatest appreciation goes to the individual AK DIYers, some experienced and some novice, who have exhibited sufficient faith in and commitment to what we have developed here to actually build with it.

E'Wave ON, AK...! :thmbsp:
 
I own a couple pairs of speakers that need some attention. One is a pair of rectilinear III with the Jensen woofer. It has one mid out and nearly all of the tweeters. The cabinets are pretty nice. With the baffles easily removeable is it a good candidate for the econo wave?
The other cabinets are a pair of sansui SP-300. THe cabinets are immaculate but the sound hurts my ears just thinking about them. Fairly large cabinets roughly 18x18x24. WHat would be a good woofer to combine with the wave in this box?
THanks for this thread its very informative. Its interesting what folks have come up with.
bryan
 
Can we see some pic's of what is you might be working with?, a pic is worth a thousand words. :)

EDIT: On a quick search I would be tempted to try the Sansui SP-300 cabs using there woofer an a new baffle
arrangement with woofer towards the top of the cabinet E-Wave just above it and 2 3" wide ports on the back
tuning the cabs to 30hz or so once all dimensions are figured. (this would be final setup once determined it works)

Doing what Zilch recommends though outside the cabs is the way to start an see how things may work out there.
 
bryana said:
Its interesting what folks have come up with.
Click to expand...
And each one of them is different! :banana:

It's usually a good bet to start out with the woofers already in the cabs, on the assumption that the original designers knew what they were doing and got the best out of what they had to work with, unless you really don't like the bass they produce. Even then, chances are they'll sound different with a new high-frequency section.

E'Wave can just sit on top for evaluaton purposes, and you don't even have to disturb the existing speakers other than to bring out the woofer leads separately, through a port or almost any small hole already in the cabinet such as a crossover or terminal mounting hole. Make one if you have to; you can fill it later with a screw. Once that's running you can consider woofer options appropriate to the particular cabinet size you choose to modify, and consistent with your listening preferences.

Woofers are a whole 'nother subject, and sometimes you just have to try different alternatives to determine what you like best. That also requires you to learn something about how they behave in different size boxes and alignments, and how to manipulate those variables.

My own knowledge is limited almost entirely to JBL drivers, and derives from listening to how they perform in existing products, and my own experience prototyping with them. I'm encouraging you to begin by doing the same to develop an understanding of what's good vs. not so good, what you like vs. what not so much, and why, employing EconoWave HF as your new and constant frame of reference.... :yes:
 
Forgot it that the camera was in my truck.
Here is the rectilinear III and the sansui SP-300
The rectilinear is shown missing its midrange. It was removed to test and it is not good.
The sansui has some interesting midrange horns. The woofers really stink. Yes thats really a port.
Bryan
 

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I would try what Zilch says, and flip each SPKR upside down so the woofer is near the top
with the E-Wave sitting on top of cab an see which if either might work best, I bet one of
the two or both could work here. :) You'd be surprised how bad a woofer might sound to
you mated with other drivers they may not sound so good, don't dismiss those woofers. :)
 
THanks Zilch
From reading the posts your familiarity with JBL is evident.
In regards to likes and dislikes, I have in the past had high regard for Boston acoustics AS100, KLH 17s and Advents. I have owned models of all.
I really like the rectilinears bass response and in the one model that I have been able to get going using parts from the other. THe mids from the philips driver is nice and clear.
My thinking in regard to the rectilinar would be to utilize the existing woofer. If I understand the rectilinear philosophy it was that the woofer played pretty low with the mid doing a lot of the mid bass to lower high frequency duty. It has a nice clarity that I find appealing in some single driver units I have heard.
The sansui is a train wreck of sound. Perhaps the mid is acceptable but the woofer has no excurision as it has extremely stiff surrounds. The dual horn tweeters are harsh. WHy it has the huge port is a mystery. Perhaps a jbl woofer and wave guide would make these otherwise nice cabinets worthy of the space they occupy.
 
Yes the baffle of the rectilinear would be easy to flip as it is removeable. Being it was a three way design I would have to redo the crossover frequency as well. I think it would be the best candidate to start with. As you said it has attributes of the woofer I do like.
 
bryana said:
Yes the baffle of the rectilinear would be easy to flip as it is removeable. Being it was a three way design I would have to redo the crossover frequency as well. I think it would be the best candidate to start with. As you said it has attributes of the woofer I do like.
Click to expand...
The Rectilinears will make nice towers. Flip the baffles and set E'Wave on top. Disconnect everything but the woofers. It's all going to depend on whether they'll play nicely up to ~1.6 kHz to match. If it all works, you'll make new baffles.

You know the story on the Sansuis already; I don't have to repeat it. Their only hope is to fill in the baffle openings (or replace the baffles) and start from scratch. Jackgiff can possibly suggest how to do that.... :yes:
 
Gentlemen,

Instead of using LPAD to attenuate the high, I put a 4 ohm resistor across the (+) and (-) terminal of the D210TI to match my Altec 414 (which is about 96db.) The loudness level seems to match it really well that way. Don't know if doing that would decrease the fidelity/peformance or not, just want to share my experience.
 
Problem with that is your presenting about a 2.5ohm load to your amplifier and changing
the impeadence the xover sees which will surely change the xover point, not a good mod
in my oppinion, I'd change it back to an L-Pad or caclulate the correct paralell and series
resistors to make a permanent L-Pad with them instead.
 
bryana said:
Yes the baffle of the rectilinear would be easy to flip as it is removeable. Being it was a three way design I would have to redo the crossover frequency as well. I think it would be the best candidate to start with. As you said it has attributes of the woofer I do like.
Click to expand...

That is probably the easier of the 2 to get up and running for yourself, my reason for wanting to go
the SP-300 route was probably more personal and a bit trickier, what grabbed me was that a quick
search led to some very interesting specs and 1 being 104db sensitivity, I'd want to utilize that and
do some frequency shaping in the xover knocking down upper frequencies say 6db getting say 98db
out of a woofer an mating that to the high output Econo Xover. If I still didn't get the bass I wanted
then changing to a configuration like Gordon has suggested an 2.5way augmenting with a "real" bass
driver or maybe a passive radiator would just give some cool options and "could" make a pretty sweet
setup, that cab surely has plenty of room for another driver and looks really nice to me. :)

Again this was just me rambling and my brain wondering what I would do with that particular speaker,
it surely would be the route with more work and in the end, :dunno:
 
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