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$11 Chinese AT3600L Thread Mk. II - Champagne sound on a Beer budget!

Up at the top of this page there is a search box, enter the word cartridge and you will get a slew of pages dealing with cartridges. There will be pages from people sharing information about the best and cheapest cartridges that are leagues ahead of any imitation Chinese want-a-be cartridges.
 
I had my first negative moment with a stylus yesterday. After listening to a 211 body with ATN91 stylus I heard a slight scraping on the runout grooves. After turning volume down and confirming that scraping was there anywhere on the record, I checked for VTF, AS, cantilever position, cleaned the stylus and looked at it under loupe.

While I couldn't see the issue, the scraping failed to go away and I had to conclude that the tip was cracked or fractured. I threw on one of the Chinese grey styluses and set VTF to 2.75. All was well again and I threw the ATN91 away. Not sure how many hours I had on the ATN91, possibly 100? No big deal, the record sounds no worse for the wear, but was an interesting thing.
My AT3600 stylus was not only perfect but excellent, that said the cost of second hand microscopes is not high, I recently bought a German Leitz Wetzlar stereo microscope with 30x 100x anf 450x for 25 bucks!!! I just bought another set of eyepieces which are 20x which will give me 200x without needing to get too close to the stylus. Point is at these prices not worth risking your records, a loup wont be enough in most cases to see stylus damage. I have two Jico Shibata stylus, one for a 681 which has always sounded terrible and one for an 881 which sounds much better but still looks horrible. The pic I took was with my camera down the eyepiece so it is much more blurry than the super sharp microscope image, actually it took about 10 attempts to get the pic at all but you can see the how terrible the very expensive Jico Shibata is. I wish I had my microscope when I bought the stylus as it would have been returned right away and it would not have been played which will have done some damage to my records. Here is the pic.
1193691-7a3da5f7bbe2b1b04ea2250cb7fccc3f.jpg
1193692-9c2d6ff5d52c6370be34f7cd300c7dcd.jpg

Chris
 

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Was searching the auction site for a headshell and found this "gemini hdcn-15 headshell w/cartridge installed $9.99" cart is at3600l. I'm waiting for one from china, over a month, estimated delivery 11/6. This one ships from NJ, estimated 11/7. I bought one of these a couple of years ago, for $25, and the headshell was crooked. I returned it to gemini, headshell, and never heard back. Sold cart with a turntable and the extra one will go with the next one I sell, I have 5 now. What I really needed was some wires, since they were all around $10 a set I checked out headshells and found this. If it is crooked, likely considering the price, I'll have my wires and a cart for $10. Scroe!
 
Up at the top of this page there is a search box, enter the word cartridge and you will get a slew of pages dealing with cartridges. There will be pages from people sharing information about the best and cheapest cartridges that are leagues ahead of any imitation Chinese want-a-be cartridges.

Which "imitation Chinese want-a-be" cartridges are you referring to? Surely not the AT3600L that is the subject of this thread. It has been well established that Audio Technica has a manufacturing facility in China. The AT3600L is produced there, as are the conical and bonded elliptical versions of their new VM95 line. There used to be a thread in this very forum, over 20 pages in length, extolling the virtues of this cartridge. It was recently deleted. Perhaps you missed it. Too bad, it was full of very useful information and user reviews of this wonderfully inexpensive Chinese made cartridge. Many members of this forum have first hand experience with this cartridge. Do you? If not, what is your reason for trying to steer readers of this thread elsewhere?
 
My AT3600 stylus was not only perfect but excellent, that said the cost of second hand microscopes is not high, I recently bought a German Leitz Wetzlar stereo microscope with 30x 100x anf 450x for 25 bucks!!! I just bought another set of eyepieces which are 20x which will give me 200x without needing to get too close to the stylus. Point is at these prices not worth risking your records, a loup wont be enough in most cases to see stylus damage. I have two Jico Shibata stylus, one for a 681 which has always sounded terrible and one for an 881 which sounds much better but still looks horrible. The pic I took was with my camera down the eyepiece so it is much more blurry than the super sharp microscope image, actually it took about 10 attempts to get the pic at all but you can see the how terrible the very expensive Jico Shibata is. I wish I had my microscope when I bought the stylus as it would have been returned right away and it would not have been played which will have done some damage to my records. Here is the pic.
1193691-7a3da5f7bbe2b1b04ea2250cb7fccc3f.jpg
1193692-9c2d6ff5d52c6370be34f7cd300c7dcd.jpg

Chris

That magnification tells you nothing about the part of the diamond that actually contacts the groove. If you have not done so, you may want to read Sparky’s sticky in this forum about what to look for. I did, and learned a lot, eventually building a proper setup for viewing a stylus.

Here's the link: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/sparkys-fabulous-diy-stylus-microscope.225960/
 
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It's here!
Can't wait to pop it onto the sled on my Dual.

View attachment 1318751

The first two I ordered from a seller in China back in May came in small, sealed plastic bags in a bubble envelope:

AT-3600L.jpg


They arrived safely, with the stylus guards intact. It took 14 days from the time I placed my order until they arrived in my mailbox. I was quite pleased, given reports of shipping taking a month, or longer, in some cases. I thought maybe I just got lucky.

I ordered my second two on October 25, from a seller in Hong Kong. Their listing shows them in the same small plastic case as yours (clear top, black bottom and yellow foam insert). I just checked the tracking for the package and the most recent update was from half an hour ago and says: "Flight departed from origin country". So, they are coming by plane, not by boat. It has been less than 7 days since I placed my order. At their current rate of progress, these two may get here even faster than the first two.
 
Which "imitation Chinese want-a-be" cartridges are you referring to? Surely not the AT3600L that is the subject of this thread. It has been well established that Audio Technica has a manufacturing facility in China. The AT3600L is produced there, as are the conical and bonded elliptical versions of their new VM95 line. There used to be a thread in this very forum, over 20 pages in length, extolling the virtues of this cartridge. It was recently deleted. Perhaps you missed it. Too bad, it was full of very useful information and user reviews of this wonderfully inexpensive Chinese made cartridge. Many members of this forum have first hand experience with this cartridge. Do you? If not, what is your reason for trying to steer readers of this thread elsewhere?
This is the same cart with a probably defective headshell shipped from NJ. Wasn't aware of deleted posts. I have had one before and was wanting to give it another listen, why I ordered it from china. I just stumbled upon this other listing this morning and was sharing a good deal with anyone interested. I figure these are defective headshells, there were many posts about them about 2 yrs ago. The carts were genuine AT and were fine. Seller in NJ must have bought a lot cheap as they are $10 shipped. I am in Colorado and have no clue who the seller is. I'm guessing headshells are defective as they sell for $25-50 elsewhere, maybe not. Time will tell. Already have shipping confirmation. I don't understand the tone of your reply. I thought I stated they were chinese AT3600l, just shipped from NJ.
 
This is the same cart with a probably defective headshell shipped from NJ. Wasn't aware of deleted posts. I have had one before and was wanting to give it another listen, why I ordered it from china. I just stumbled upon this other listing this morning and was sharing a good deal with anyone interested. I figure these are defective headshells, there were many posts about them about 2 yrs ago. The carts were genuine AT and were fine. Seller in NJ must have bought a lot cheap as they are $10 shipped. I am in Colorado and have no clue who the seller is. I'm guessing headshells are defective as they sell for $25-50 elsewhere, maybe not. Time will tell. Already have shipping confirmation. I don't understand the tone of your reply. I thought I stated they were chinese AT3600l, just shipped from NJ.

I was not replying to you. Not sure why you thought I was. This was the post I was responding to. It was quoted in my reply:

Up at the top of this page there is a search box, enter the word cartridge and you will get a slew of pages dealing with cartridges. There will be pages from people sharing information about the best and cheapest cartridges that are leagues ahead of any imitation Chinese want-a-be cartridges.
 
Was searching the auction site for a headshell and found this "gemini hdcn-15 headshell w/cartridge installed $9.99" cart is at3600l. I'm waiting for one from china, over a month, estimated delivery 11/6. This one ships from NJ, estimated 11/7. I bought one of these a couple of years ago, for $25, and the headshell was crooked. I returned it to gemini, headshell, and never heard back. Sold cart with a turntable and the extra one will go with the next one I sell, I have 5 now. What I really needed was some wires, since they were all around $10 a set I checked out headshells and found this. If it is crooked, likely considering the price, I'll have my wires and a cart for $10. Scroe!

Not sure if by “crooked” you mean the headshell wasn’t sitting level when the collar was tightened but if so then all you need to do is pivot the headshell until it’s straight and level. Most aftermarket headshells only have the cartridge holder section peened to the locking collar section of the headshell so it’s infinitely adjustable. It’s a pretty tight fit so once you have the azimuth set properly it will stay put, but it’s not at all unusual to get an aftermarket headshell that doesn’t sit level right out of the box.
 
That magnification tells you nothing about the part of the diamond that actually contacts the groove. If you have not done so, you may want to read Sparky’s sticky in this forum about what to look for. I did, and learned a lot, eventually building a proper setup for viewing a stylus.

Here's the link: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/sparkys-fabulous-diy-stylus-microscope.225960/
No the pic shown was only 35x but it was the only magnification I could easily take a picture of down the eyepiece. The pic was only to show the terrible quality of the Jico Shibata diamond. At 100x shows bubbles on the contact area which shows very well that this stylus was damaging the record, but this magnification was too blurry with the camera. I dont have an attachment for my camera I was just taking a pic with my camera down the microscope eyepiece with no flash so pic shaky this was incredibly hard to do. Higher magnification showed clearly contact areas but did not show the whole stylus which was also the point of my picture. I have read your link a while ago which is why I have bought extra eyepieces as this gives more magnification whilst keeping depth of field.
Cheers
Chris
 
Not sure if by “crooked” you mean the headshell wasn’t sitting level when the collar was tightened but if so then all you need to do is pivot the headshell until it’s straight and level. Most aftermarket headshells only have the cartridge holder section peened to the locking collar section of the headshell so it’s infinitely adjustable. It’s a pretty tight fit so once you have the azimuth set properly it will stay put, but it’s not at all unusual to get an aftermarket headshell that doesn’t sit level right out of the box.
Pin was about 5 degrees off and pressed so tight that I couldn't move it, with tools. I admit I didn't go all out because I thought gemini would send me a replacement. I have a dozen headshells new and used and this is the only one that had this problem. If the new one is the same I'll put it in a vise and not worry about tool marks.
 
Pin was about 5 degrees off and pressed so tight that I couldn't move it, with tools. I admit I didn't go all out because I thought gemini would send me a replacement. I have a dozen headshells new and used and this is the only one that had this problem. If the new one is the same I'll put it in a vise and not worry about tool marks.

I wouldnt suggest putting it in a vice or using pliers, if it gets galled up or if the locating pin gets a bite mark it won't go into the arm tube easily anymore. It should rotate a few degrees without too much fuss once the locating pin is locked in place. I have many headshells loaded with various cartridges as well as many that I've put on turntables to sell over the years and I've found the cheapie $9.00 ones canted by a few degrees one way or the other quite often. They've all just twisted straight without issue when mounted in the arm for me, but YMMV.
 
Bubbles on a diamond? Too bad you couldn’t take a picture, I’d really like to see that.
Look at the pics I posted before the ones that look like lumps of coal. Well the same rough bubble like finish continues to the contact areas. I know it was doing damage as I had to clean what looked like vinyl off the stylus before I put it under the microscope.
Chris
 
Bubbles on a diamond? Too bad you couldn’t take a picture, I’d really like to see that.
Have a look at post 62 on this thread. This shows the bubble like flaws on the diamond, these can also be seen on the contact area that was very rough under higher magnification.The sad bit was what I cleaned off to examine the stylus looked rather like vinyl that the horrible Shibata tip had sanded off my records. Thankfully I did not play too many.
 
I’ll have to take your word for it since the pictures lack the magnification to show the area that rides the groove. The only image that really counts is this one:
index.php

since that is what the record sees.

My understanding of the crystalline structure of diamonds does not support the presence of bubbles on the surface of a cut diamond. What you are seeing is probably dirt or possibly some adhesive. I had no such issues with my JICO XSV3000 Shibata, and if I did,*after carefully checking alignment* I'd notify JICO right away. They are very helpful!

In any case, QC problems for JICO stylus are rare enough that I’d give the manufacturer the benefit of the doubt. Understand I have nothing but respect for Audio Technica as a company, and am using an AT150mlx and OC9-II, as well as 4 or 5 other AT carts, but I doubt the stylus on an $11 AT cartridge is of higher quality than a JICO Shibata.

Too bad Needlestein isn’t around anymore as he could lend his expertise to this conversation.
 
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I wouldnt suggest putting it in a vice or using pliers, if it gets galled up or if the locating pin gets a bite mark it won't go into the arm tube easily anymore. It should rotate a few degrees without too much fuss once the locating pin is locked in place. I have many headshells loaded with various cartridges as well as many that I've put on turntables to sell over the years and I've found the cheapie $9.00 ones canted by a few degrees one way or the other quite often. They've all just twisted straight without issue when mounted in the arm for me, but YMMV.
I'll give it a shot. I was afear'd of messing up the arm. I had tried pliers, firm but gently. I put tape on the teeth, like I do with plumbing trim. Wierdly, spell checker came up with Normarh when I typed like. WTH
 
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