ADC's Bricks
- Thread starter wualta
- Start date
Just bought a 10E MKII. Has the original stylus, but no diamond on the cantilever. Haven’t yet found an original stylus. Anyone know who has one, at an earthly price?
As a follow on question, how does the MKII compare to the MKIV that I’m listening to now? I’ve got sale brochures, but they don’t really compare the two.
I’m thinking of transplanting an aftermarket elliptical stylus cantilever from a 220XE into the MKII’s pivot block.
Anyone have experience in this?
As a follow on question, how does the MKII compare to the MKIV that I’m listening to now? I’ve got sale brochures, but they don’t really compare the two.
I’m thinking of transplanting an aftermarket elliptical stylus cantilever from a 220XE into the MKII’s pivot block.
Anyone have experience in this?
Last edited:
Luckyorleans
Super Member
I had one for a couple of years that had a good stylus and I looked constantly for an original replacement or even a elliptical aftermarket and had no luck.
What's the difference between the 10E and the 10E MK II?
I have both and I can't tell the difference. I was only able to ID them by a 1964 ad showing the 10E body.
The stylus grips are the same and there are no labels or anything else that IDs them as a MK I or MK II.
The MKII stylus appears to be a tiny bit smaller but it's not a significant difference.
The inductance/resistance are similar: 10E: 723 mH, 1051 ohms; 10E MK II: 729 mH, 1151 ohms.
As far as my ears can hear....no difference between the two.
I have both and I can't tell the difference. I was only able to ID them by a 1964 ad showing the 10E body.
The stylus grips are the same and there are no labels or anything else that IDs them as a MK I or MK II.
The MKII stylus appears to be a tiny bit smaller but it's not a significant difference.
The inductance/resistance are similar: 10E: 723 mH, 1051 ohms; 10E MK II: 729 mH, 1151 ohms.
As far as my ears can hear....no difference between the two.
Thank you!
From your great pics, mine is a MKII.
Fortunately I have the original stylus grip. I’ll compare the cantilever from a 220XE stylus. If close, I’ll swap out cantilevers.
I’m curious to know how the MKII compares to the MKIV, sound wise.
I know that changing out cantilevers will potentially change the sound from the original. I’m hoping to get close.
The MK4 is a very good sounding cartridge.
I'll try to remember to take pictures while I perform the transplant surgery. It might just help someone else, if it goes well.
From your great pics, mine is a MKII.
Fortunately I have the original stylus grip. I’ll compare the cantilever from a 220XE stylus. If close, I’ll swap out cantilevers.
I’m curious to know how the MKII compares to the MKIV, sound wise.
I know that changing out cantilevers will potentially change the sound from the original. I’m hoping to get close.
The MK4 is a very good sounding cartridge.
I'll try to remember to take pictures while I perform the transplant surgery. It might just help someone else, if it goes well.
Last edited:
I always thought the difference between the different models was the stylus tip. The internal coils/poles inductance/resistance of the MKIV is very close to the MKII so it could be the internal designs of the two models are the same. The only thing I could think of is the iron collar at the end of the cantilever is in a different position and that the alignment of the collar with the coils/poles may not be at as designed. But I don't think there should be a significant degradation in the sound.
Luckyorleans
Super Member
This is a USB scope picture of the original MK10.II stylus I had.
lieutenant30
New Member
Ive only just discovered this thread and thought I'd share my ADC "Brickness".
In 1986, a work colleague of mine fell in love with CD and put all of his analogue hi-fi in his loft. Over the next few years I occasionally asked him if any of his old gear was for sale. It wasn't and had been confined to his loft.
Fast forward to 2011 and I had just taken redundancy so had some spare cash.
The phone rang and the fellas wife asked if I was still interested.
A few days later I was the proud owner of two Linn LP12s (circa 1974/5), one SME 2 Improved, two SME 3s, eight SME 3 armwands each with a cartridge along with a plethora of cartridge boxes and NOS styli.
In amongst that little lot was an ADC 26 cart, two 26 styli and one R-251 stylus.
Today I am mostly listening to OMD's 2013 LP "English Electric" with the R-251 @ 0.7g on my Strathclyde 305D and SME 3 (no damping) and its
gorgeous!
In 1986, a work colleague of mine fell in love with CD and put all of his analogue hi-fi in his loft. Over the next few years I occasionally asked him if any of his old gear was for sale. It wasn't and had been confined to his loft.
Fast forward to 2011 and I had just taken redundancy so had some spare cash.
The phone rang and the fellas wife asked if I was still interested.
A few days later I was the proud owner of two Linn LP12s (circa 1974/5), one SME 2 Improved, two SME 3s, eight SME 3 armwands each with a cartridge along with a plethora of cartridge boxes and NOS styli.
In amongst that little lot was an ADC 26 cart, two 26 styli and one R-251 stylus.
Today I am mostly listening to OMD's 2013 LP "English Electric" with the R-251 @ 0.7g on my Strathclyde 305D and SME 3 (no damping) and its
gorgeous!
Found a couple of bricks in a shoe box. Unprotected so I figured the styli were probably damaged. I had time today to look at their condition under the scope and they appear to be in pretty good shape. The specs are close enough that my ears probably can't tell the difference between the two...
The regular 10E has a "H" on the terminal sticker and the MK II has an "S"
Doug
I think you’re right, Doug.
Another big difference between the MK2 and MK4 was the magnet. The I and II both used the slotted bar magnet in the stylus grip; precursors to the later XLMs and saving weight. The MK4 reverted back to the pill magnet in the nose of the body and a pill flux lense in the stylus grip. The MK1 and MK2 have a hollow void in the plastic where the MK4’s pill magnet is.
Bought a NOS R26 stylus on eBay 2 weeks ago.
I just mounted it on my ADC 10E MK4. Wow! Very nice! I’m guessing it’s a nudie?
About to pull it back off to save it. Those R26 styli, NOS, are not common! Figured it would sound good. It does!
R15 Stylus on the left.
Below, the R26 looks a little odd on the 10E MK4, but it sure does sound great!
(Yea, a little Sinatra and Crosby Christmas music. Also, if you look closely, you can see I had to perform surgery on that headshell. Had to file the leading edge off of it so I could slide the cartridge forward, to align the cart to a Lofgren B.)
I just mounted it on my ADC 10E MK4. Wow! Very nice! I’m guessing it’s a nudie?
About to pull it back off to save it. Those R26 styli, NOS, are not common! Figured it would sound good. It does!
R15 Stylus on the left.
Below, the R26 looks a little odd on the 10E MK4, but it sure does sound great!
(Yea, a little Sinatra and Crosby Christmas music. Also, if you look closely, you can see I had to perform surgery on that headshell. Had to file the leading edge off of it so I could slide the cartridge forward, to align the cart to a Lofgren B.)
Last edited:
From a 1969 Stereo Review Test of the ADC-25:
I want to hear this cartridge! But I can't get the cartridge to behave.
The vertical compliance of this cartridge is +50cu and a horizontal of an insane +120cu.
With this compliance, it doesn't matter what mass the tonearm is. The safe resonance for a cartridge/tonearm combination is 8-11Hz. Because the compliance of the 25 is so high, the resonance always falls below 5Hz no matter what tonearm is used.
The interesting thing about the Stereo Review results is that it was tested with a SME 3012 arm (14 gram effective mass) when the weight of the 8 gram cartridge is added, the mass falls into the "heavy" category. The 5Hz frequency is in the turntable rumble range as well as record warp. When the resonance falls in that frequency, even the slightest warp is hear through the speakers as a "thump". Also the resonance magnifies turntable rumble and is also heard through the speakers. The sound becomes dull and muddy. That's what I'm hearing with my Dual 701 tonearm. Because the cartridge is so heavy, the counterweight is further from the pivot which creates more inertia and more problems with record warps.
The other problem is the recommend VTF. I find that the stylus will retract into the body with forces of 1 gram or more playing anything but a perfectly flat record and any force less than a gram plus the high inertia, will cause the tonearm to be so unstable that the slightest external movement will cause the stylus to rattle in the record groove resulting in audible distortion.
What this cartridge needs is a stabilizer brush: That will flatten out the resonance peak and fix the warp problem and maybe even prevent the stylus from rattling in the groove.
I want to hear this cartridge! But I can't get the cartridge to behave.
The vertical compliance of this cartridge is +50cu and a horizontal of an insane +120cu.
With this compliance, it doesn't matter what mass the tonearm is. The safe resonance for a cartridge/tonearm combination is 8-11Hz. Because the compliance of the 25 is so high, the resonance always falls below 5Hz no matter what tonearm is used.
The interesting thing about the Stereo Review results is that it was tested with a SME 3012 arm (14 gram effective mass) when the weight of the 8 gram cartridge is added, the mass falls into the "heavy" category. The 5Hz frequency is in the turntable rumble range as well as record warp. When the resonance falls in that frequency, even the slightest warp is hear through the speakers as a "thump". Also the resonance magnifies turntable rumble and is also heard through the speakers. The sound becomes dull and muddy. That's what I'm hearing with my Dual 701 tonearm. Because the cartridge is so heavy, the counterweight is further from the pivot which creates more inertia and more problems with record warps.
The other problem is the recommend VTF. I find that the stylus will retract into the body with forces of 1 gram or more playing anything but a perfectly flat record and any force less than a gram plus the high inertia, will cause the tonearm to be so unstable that the slightest external movement will cause the stylus to rattle in the record groove resulting in audible distortion.
What this cartridge needs is a stabilizer brush: That will flatten out the resonance peak and fix the warp problem and maybe even prevent the stylus from rattling in the groove.
The 25/26 stylus is not compatible with the MK IV body. The MK IV body is different from the 25-26 body. The MK IV utilitzes ADCs C.E.D (Controlled Electrodynamic Damping) a process that was also used in the LM bodies. Instead of mechanically damping the high frequency peak within the suspension block, ADC canceled out the resonance peak with the current generated within the coils in the cartridge body. The difference between the mechanical damping system and C.E.D. can be seen where the pole pieces meet the end of the cantilever:
The 25/26 junction show only the end of the pole pieces. The rest of the internal electronics are sealed.
The MK IV junction has an opened hole that exposes the coils to the end of the cantilever which allows the current to provide the electronic damping. The coil design is different from the 25 coils as indicated by the lower resistance of the MK IV. All cartridges that use CED have the open-hole design, including all the LM bodies.
Most bricks that use the mechanical suspension block damping will have a sealed junction.
So, what I can see happening with the 25/MK IV combination is that the 25 stylus will experience further high frequency damping beyond the optimal level. So even though the 25 stylus fits in the MK IV body, it will not result in the optimal sound but, it may sound perfectly fine to your ears which is a good thing.
Last edited: