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Alaska Reopens Fully Friday

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Alobar said:
I suspect, as it has before, will be sold as "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one" to borrow one from Star Trek. Or "it's not for you, it's for everyone else". In worst case scenarios everyone will wear something visible showing (or warning) everyone your vac status. Maybe it will be fine, after all what could go wrong? :bigok:



It will be interesting to see what happens, and what gets reported as to what happened. Much can get swept under the rug by the media when it is owned by the same owners producing the vaccine.

BTW, they do have a special law dating back to the 80's that disallows a pharmaceutical company to be sued for harm caused by a vaccine. They have blanket immunity in the court of law!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Childhood_Vaccine_Injury_Act
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OK, you sucked me in. There is technology out there to do under skin sensors. Fast forward to government saying it is for the betterment of mankind. Now fast forward to requiring people to have the vaccine. And finally, you will have to put your arm or hand under a sensor to prove you have been vaccinated in order to go to a store, attend a concert, etc. It’s all there. The only thing we are waiting on is for someone or some group to propose it and get it enacted into law.
OK, I’m done. No need to delete my post or ban me from any more postings to this thread, since I said my piece.
 
GChief said:
That was my point, they will be a good case study for not doing a lockdown. They are doing better than a lot of there neighbors that did. We shall see.
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One of the heads of state for Sweden, when asked if they had any regrets, he said they could have done a better job early on protecting the nursing homes, but otherwise, no regrets.
 
Alobar said:
One of the heads of state for Sweden, when asked if they had any regrets, he said they could have done a better job early on protecting the nursing homes, but otherwise, no regrets.
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I have been following it on the advice of my Dr buddy that is working with SK on the beer virus.

Edit: I would think that since they are probably about 80% healthier then Mericans as a culture should be taken into account :dunno:
 
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David_NC said:
Sweden's population is about 1/4 of that of California and almost the same as Georgia, so I wonder how much the differences in population and diversity affect this. Not to get too involved, but Sweden's health care system is one of the best, from what I've read over the past few years.
Then there's this: https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-most-coronavirus-deaths-europe-per-capita-report-2020-5 and https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...us-response-less-economic-damage-more-disease
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And without looking I would bet a paycheck their obesity, diabetes, heart disease etc rates are a fraction of ours.
 
David_NC said:
Sweden's population is about 1/4 of that of California and almost the same as Georgia, so I wonder how much the differences in population and diversity affect this. Not to get too involved, but Sweden's health care system is one of the best, from what I've read over the past few years.
Then there's this: https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-most-coronavirus-deaths-europe-per-capita-report-2020-5 and https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...us-response-less-economic-damage-more-disease
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I'm sure there are at least some apples and oranges there, but it is interesting that Sweden has had about a projected 30% population that has already had CV19, and passed it, normally either with mild or no symptoms. They didn't close the schools, didn't do the social distancing, masks, etc. People went to work and home and the peak to the virus came and went about 6 weeks ago, just like most other airborne viruses do. They don't have to worry about the dreaded second wave, because there isn't going to be one! It peaked, and blew itself out, end of story for them.

Now those in the states, and the UK, there may well be a second wave, but because we chose to flatten the curve, that simply means the infections will come more gradually over a longer time is all. Hiding from a virus was never meant initially to work as a long term solution, but somehow they got it in their heads that if we just hold the population in lockdown long enough the vaccines will make a shitload of money for the industry IMO.
 
From one of the links I posted above:

"Sweden recorded the most coronavirus deaths in Europe per capita over the seven days that ended Tuesday, according to data from Our World In Data, an online research publication based at the University of Oxford."
and
"While Sweden has recorded far fewer coronavirus cases overall than more-populated countries like Italy and Germany, its per capita coronavirus death toll is among the highest in the world."

Of course they have fewer cases; their population is lower. However, they've had more deaths per capita than most. So strange how this is working out... we've def got lots to learn.
 
David_NC said:
From one of the links I posted above:

"Sweden recorded the most coronavirus deaths in Europe per capita over the seven days that ended Tuesday, according to data from Our World In Data, an online research publication based at the University of Oxford."
and
"While Sweden has recorded far fewer coronavirus cases overall than more-populated countries like Italy and Germany, its per capita coronavirus death toll is among the highest in the world."

Of course they have fewer cases; their population is lower. However, they've had more deaths per capita than most. So strange how this is working out... we've def got lots to learn.
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And yet when you shake the tree, we will find out that the death toll wasn't any higher than some years influenza. Nobody ever shut the world down for months on end for the flu.
 
"Devestating" study showing infection rates actually declined after re-opening states.
getPart
 
Wow you all have been busy since I was away :D I suppose in 5 years after the dust has settled we will have a better idea of what country did the best job of this mess if we can figure out what was actually done or not done considering some countries are better at telling the actual facts of course that is if we can all decide on who is being truthful or not.

There are pros and cons for doing nothing and letting her rip or like some countries almost completely shutting down. Which was the best plan? or was something in between more prudent? We had a glimpse of what it may look like in New York if we did not do anything, I cant even imagine the chaos this country would be in if we had done nothing at all, even so with the shut downs we have done stores were emptied of some supplies very quickly and replacements were slow to come back imagine if we had not shut down at all and a huge number of folks had became sick all at once would we have fared better?

With what we have done to prevent the spread we still have over 30% of the known cases worldwide 1.6 mill approx currently yes only 100k or so deaths so far but that is because we shut down if we had not and it spread like it did in New York I suspect we could easily have had 10-20 times that by this date and it would be much harder to get back under control. Hospitals would have became so overwhelmed that anyone in the high risk groups the elderly and those with obesity heart disease diabetes lung problems would just be told to go home and die. Also since the hospitals would be full of the sick and dying many other deaths would happen as a result due to beds and staff shortages. Not even thinking about how many more people who would have survived but who would have life long damage to their hearts livers kidneys lungs etc it attacks pretty much all your major organs.

We cant really compare this to the normal flu. For most healthy people, the common flu is an uncomfortable but short-term illness that resolves itself as the immune system fights it off. Symptoms usually appear from one to four days after exposure to the virus, and they last five to seven days. The Covid-19 virus however is far different. Using available preliminary data, the median time from onset to clinical recovery for mild cases is approximately 2 weeks and is 3-6 weeks for patients with severe or critical disease. Just the incubation period alone for Covid-19 is longer then the entire average common flu is not to mention this virus is far easier to spread it lasts longer in the air and on surfaces. If we had done nothing I truly believe we would seriously be hurting far more then we are now and the recovery period would take far far longer then what it is going to take now. And yes we cant stay locked down and hidden away forever and I am pretty sure most of us do not want to. How quickly should we start back up? It appears that it is different from county to county and state to state and country to country.

I am no expert on pandemics so my guesses may be way off take what I have said with a grain of salt or perhaps a beer if you drink :)

In any case please be kind to each other in this thread and others. I know some of us have been cooped up for a while now and our tolerance levels are low and our angst is high keep this in mind.
 
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visman said:
Who is this devastating to? Do you actually believe when infected people start mingling in close proximity with non- infected people - infection rates will go down?
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I don't know about "rates" :rolleyes: going down but infection numbers are doing the opposite.
 
This should be a great study - a reduction in cases over a long period of time entering the “opening”.
 
RickeyM said:
I don't know about "rates" :rolleyes: going down but infection numbers are doing the opposite.
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World wide millions will get the Chinese flu and never even have a clue.millions will have at worst a sniffle .What happens if that w.h.o.doctor is right and we never get a vaccine for this?Do we all scurry under our beds sucking our thumbs for months every year?As a killer virus goes so far this one is a minor leaguer at best so far.Im strictly looking at numbers not emotion .So far we have 300k dead in what 5 months?The big boy Spanish flu killed approx. 148k each and every day for a year or more.Every 40 years or so were hit with a killer virus ,1918,1958,1968,2019.In my lovely province Ontario actual deaths of all kinds are down 1400 from the same time span a year ago yet were still under what I consider draconian rules that maybe didn't do one damn thing to stem the tide of the virus.My last little musing is something I read on the web and should be pause for thought. IF as they say wearing a mask is the way to go and will keep everybody safe then why are prisoners being released instead of being given masks???
 
2011etec said:
World wide millions will get the Chinese flu and never even have a clue.millions will have at worst a sniffle .What happens if that w.h.o.doctor is right and we never get a vaccine for this?Do we all scurry under our beds sucking our thumbs for months every year?As a killer virus goes so far this one is a minor leaguer at best so far.Im strictly looking at numbers not emotion .So far we have 300k dead in what 5 months?The big boy Spanish flu killed approx. 148k each and every day for a year or more.Every 40 years or so were hit with a killer virus ,1918,1958,1968,2019.In my lovely province Ontario actual deaths of all kinds are down 1400 from the same time span a year ago yet were still under what I consider draconian rules that maybe didn't do one damn thing to stem the tide of the virus.My last little musing is something I read on the web and should be pause for thought. IF as they say wearing a mask is the way to go and will keep everybody safe then why are prisoners being released instead of being given masks???
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You cant compare this virus with previous viruses accurately it is like comparing an apple to an orange especially the death rates simply because during the Spanish flu epidemic we did not have the same types of medicines or PPE that we have today. Also saying we only have 300k dead in 5 months versus 148k every day is in no way a fair comparison, to the best of my knowledge they did not lock down the entire world like we have done with this virus so it is impossible to know how many deaths we would have had in 5 months if we had not shut down nor had the PPE and medicines respirators etc we have today or how many deaths that would not have happened if during the Spanish flu if they had everything we have today with medicines and PPE.

Granted it seems to me that the Spanish flu if it had happened today would have killed far more in a shorter time then the Covid-19 has but since virtually everything is different today then how it was back then you cant accurately compare them side by side. There is far too many differences one being travel it is easy today for anyone to climb aboard a jet and be anywhere in 24 hours or less. Even our immune systems today compared to back then has changed drastically.

You may well be right about the shut down going on for too long in your area though I am not there and have not a clue what the situation is there.
 
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