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Antiskate force , what is yours

Antiskate force at setting at 2, for 2 gram VTF

  • 0.14 gram or less

    Votes: 7 24.1%

  • 0.15-0.18

    Votes: 5 17.2%

  • 0.19-0.22

    Votes: 4 13.8%

  • 0.23-0.26

    Votes: 7 24.1%

  • 0.27-0.3

    Votes: 2 6.9%

  • 0.31-0.34

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • 0.35-0.38

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • 0.39-0.42

    Votes: 1 3.4%

  • 0.43 or more

    Votes: 6 20.7%
  • Total voters
    29
Sleiven said:
Yes Lederman/Schrøder/blank disk method.
I have the Denon XG-7001 test record with a blank area specifically for this purpose.
Click to expand...
The nice thing about the Schroder/Ledermann method is that you don't need a blank disk; you just use the space available in the run-out groove of a normal record. Some of my records have a wider flat space between the run-out grooves than others, and that makes the method a bit easier to use.
Sleiven said:
My 3 TT vary AS force. But force wise 12-14% of VTF makes the arm stationary..
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With your blank area at a different radius than the run-out area, would that affect what type of arm motion a person would look for? That is, would enough antiskate to make the arm stationary on your test disk also result in a slow inward movement in the run-out area?
Sleiven said:
A 0.5 change in AS setting can be required to make arm start/stop moving..which gives a large margin for error
Click to expand...
Sadly, a 0.1 change in antiskate settiing has a rather large effect on my turntable, at least down in the area I need to set mine at (the Ledermann method has my dial at 0.5 to track a cartridge at 2.1 grams). Makes it kind of fiddly to adjust, but the force does stay constant once it has been set.
 
It would be interesting if others test the cue up method using a real track (e.g. pink noise). Again, the idea is that IF the stylus has more force against one groove wall, cueing up would cause a lateral signal which may differ between channels. I've tested it by cueing up 5-6 times at each antiskate setting and look at the waveforms. Too high antiskate gets generally higher spike in the left channel, too low antiskate gives higher spike in right channel.

It is the "deflection method" done backwards but looking at the recorded waveform rather than by a "microscope".
 
I am not very convinced about that lift off method. Record eccentricity and all kind of disturbing factors can occur.
If you look at the YouTube of Orsonic SG sideforce meter fluctuate back and forth as the record turns. Only when AS it is clearly off does is stay on one side..
 
Sleiven said:
I am not very convinced about that lift off method. Record eccentricity and all kind of disturbing factors can occur.
If you look at the YouTube of Orsonic SG sideforce meter fluctuate back and forth as the record turns. Only when AS it is clearly off does is stay on one side..
Click to expand...
I will put some more data on ASR.
 
No idea since mines magnetic, but I do know what sounds even to me. I do keep an eye on cantilever drift after playing albums though and has seemed to work for decades (on older tables also).
 
The blank album method DOES work.

The various methods all sort of approximate one another, which isn't bad seeing as we're shooting for a value which is approximate (varying by album and radius).

People get too hung up on this.

Here is a comparison of nine different methods.

 
You may get a stationary arm but does that give the correct antiskate force? A blank surface is not the same as a groove

To make the arm stationary on a blank LO section AS force must be 15% or more of VTF…when I try. so it works on some arms and not others. For instance A SME V setting AS=VTF correspond to 10%of VTF, and cannot make arm stationary since a VTF of 2 gram needs AS setting 3 or more

By the way the difference in skating force across a record less than +- 8%. Probably less than the modulation effects
 
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A way to present effect of different AS setting and modulation level

1763818042447.png

Another TT and cartridge.... two different test records
1763818489647.png
 
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Sleiven said:
You may get a stationary arm but does that give the correct antiskate force? A blank surface is not the same as a groove
Click to expand...
This.
I'm sure you're all aware of different values for arms.
IME..
Rega - just over 50%
Technics - 60%
Linn/Roksan (Tabriz) - 100%

My Ittok - yrs ago was 100% of VTF as is my Tabriz. Never used a blank disc coz of the above quote.
Used my ears on known LPs. Worked fine for me.
 
It we look at the best litterature and posts by users with Osonix SG force meter. The correct antiskate force is 10-15% of the VTF, that is also the range of my 4 turntables .
Your numbers seem way off from the typical range and are unreasonable and I doubt that they are correct.

A side force of 100% of VTF is extreme and would be damaging.

We are talking about true side force in grams relative to VTF in grams, not what the number on the antiskate dial says..that could of course be around “100%” but that is not the % we are discussing here.

The antiskate setting of 2 in my SME V gives 0.2gram side force and matches 2g VTF at 10%. Another turntable gives 0.3 gram at AS setting 2, or 15%.
 
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Thomas_AA said:
Skating force will still be there one way or the other.

Click to expand...

Actually, the skating force should be zero if there’s no overhang. Most tonearms are designed with slight overhang, resulting in inward skating force. In fact, the skating force can be outward if you align to an underhang condition. I choose to minimize the effect of friction variables (blank vs groove, stylus profile, wet play vs dry play, modulation level, etc) by setting to zero overhang, making the skating force zero to first order, regardless of stylus friction.
 
deacon1blues said:
Actually, the skating force should be zero if there’s no overhang. Most tonearms are designed with slight overhang, resulting in inward skating force. In fact, the skating force can be outward if you align to an underhang condition. I choose to minimize the effect of friction variables (blank vs groove, stylus profile, wet play vs dry play, modulation level, etc) by setting to zero overhang, making the skating force zero to first order, regardless of stylus friction.
Click to expand...
Yes, but if you have zero overhang the entire record, you have a linear tracker.
 
Thomas_AA said:
Yes, but if you have zero overhang the entire record, you have a linear tracker.
Click to expand...

Agreed!! But the skating force is so small at the lead-in and runout regions is so small it’s not worth all the disadvantages of linear tracking. And swamped by the uncertainties involved with setting AS with cartridge overhang
 
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