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Big expensive quality amplifier market dead?

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Another issue with our big, beautiful, heavy amps. There’s already a rapidly dwindling number of qualified techs to work on vintage hi fi gear, and some of those who remain are now imposing weight limits on the units they’ll take in. Like many of us here, these techs are getting older, and thus just can’t physically lift anything too beastly. I know one who won’t take anything over 100 lbs, another whose limit is 40 lbs.
 
I hadn’t ever really thought about it, but that makes perfect sense, especially when it’s a one-man show.
 
I've got vintage tube amps, vintage solid state, high power pro-amps, subwoofers that are the size of my refrigerator and seven of the latest and greatest Fosi Class D amps with 48v 10a power supplies. I dig all of it. Sometimes I feel like a nut....sometimes I don't.

Rock on.
 
Threads as this one are mandatory I suppose ...

I've been buying, selling, and trading HiFi for 30+ years now. I've made plenty of money peddling big amps. I've also lost my ass on a few - SAE being the most recent example. I've also never bought one new, even at cost. The used market is soft at best at present, but amps and preamps have historically been the big movers and shakers. I don't see that changing much.

Of all the SS amps (likely 500) I've owned, McIntosh, Bryston, and Spectral are the front runners. I'd love to try an ML or Threshold - just never came across the right one. I say to each their own.

To suggest that one's HiFi collection is landfill fodder cuz' the kids won't know what to do with it to build a stronger case for cheap, disposable goods is maybe the silliest I've seen at AK in my time here. I thought this hobby was about the pursuit of enjoyment of listening to music ...
 
damacman said:
Threads as this one are mandatory I suppose ...

I've been buying, selling, and trading HiFi for 30+ years now. I've made plenty of money peddling big amps. I've also lost my ass on a few - SAE being the most recent example. I've also never bought one new, even at cost. The used market is soft at best at present, but amps and preamps have historically been the big movers and shakers. I don't see that changing much.

Of all the SS amps (likely 500) I've owned, McIntosh, Bryston, and Spectral are the front runners. I'd love to try an ML or Threshold - just never came across the right one. I say to each their own.

To suggest that one's HiFi collection is landfill fodder cuz' the kids won't know what to do with it to build a stronger case for cheap, disposable goods is maybe the silliest I've seen at AK in my time here. I thought this hobby was about the pursuit of enjoyment of listening to music ...
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Well, to be fair, most everything we all own is landfill fodder. I've been around long enough to deal with multiple "estates", which almost always means family members having to sift through detritus left behind by loved ones. I can tell you unequivocally that almost ALL of the belongings that you leave behind will wind up in a dumpster and on to a landfill. Some find it distressing to be reminded of this fact, but it is a fact.
 

Big expensive quality amplifier market dead?​


I wouldn't say DEAD, but it has moved on from the Dynaco, Bryston, McIntosh, Carver world that was once a big part of the audio scene. From my observation, it all moved upwards into the "Luxury Goods" marketplace with Rolex watches. Mr. D'Agostino makes lotsa deluxe big amps that sell for 6 fgures. Other brands I can't recall the names, have thousands of watts, weigh 600# and are shipped on pallets and require many strong men, special stands, special wires, to unpack and setup. Cost might be $150Gs or who the hell knows. They fall into the category of, "If you have to ask the price you can't afford it."

The Luxury Goods market is absolutely BOOMING worldwide. $10,000 bottles of tequila, $300,000 speakers, yachts,

QUOTE
The global luxury goods market is projected to grow from approximately USD 284 billion in 2023 to around USD 392 billion by 2030, with a compound annual growth rate (CAGR) of about 4.7% during this period.
END
 
DavidTT said:
Well, to be fair, most everything we all own is landfill fodder. I've been around long enough to deal with multiple "estates", which almost always means family members having to sift through detritus left behind by loved ones. I can tell you unequivocally that almost ALL of the belongings that you leave behind will wind up in a dumpster and on to a landfill. Some find it distressing to be reminded of this fact, but it is a fact.
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...and what doesn't go to the landfill will be sold.
 
damacman said:
I recently oversaw the estate sale of my best friend's entire vintage audio collection (massive) when he passed. The family was compensated fairly and the buyer got a bargain.

So, bark up another tree.
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That's all fine and good, but how many of us have someone like you to rely on when we die? If I were to pass today, my partner would have to liquidate 3 systems, my home recording studio, 20+ guitars, 4 instrument amps and a dragon's horde of effects pedals, mics, cables, interconnects, and countless tools in addition to managing her grief. She might be able to find a friend to help with the musical instruments, but while I have friends who have enjoyed listening to my systems, most wouldn't even know how to power it on, let alone understand what the components do in order to effectively liquidate it. The older I live (I'm 55), the harder it will be to find anyone to help. Unless you guys in your 70's and 80's have mentored or established friendships with younger hi-fi enthusiasts, your stuff is probably heading for the landfill or goodwill, unless you start making arrangements now.
 
Gigantic said:
That's all fine and good, but how many of us have someone like you to rely on when we die? If I were to pass today, my partner would have to liquidate 3 systems, my home recording studio, 20+ guitars, 4 instrument amps and a dragon's horde of effects pedals, mics, cables, interconnects, and countless tools in addition to managing her grief. She might be able to find a friend to help with the musical instruments, but while I have friends who have enjoyed listening to my systems, most wouldn't even know how to power it on, let alone understand what the components do in order to effectively liquidate it. The older I live (I'm 55), the harder it will be to find anyone to help. Unless you guys in your 70's and 80's have mentored or established friendships with younger hi-fi enthusiasts, your stuff is probably heading for the landfill or goodwill, unless you start making arrangements now.
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This is exactly why every town(ship) should have an audio club or gear library, I've been trying to get one off here for a while now. The level of individuality wihtin local Audiophile circles (read snobbery) is hard to break through though.

For synths/music making gear we have a circle of likeminded individuals in the region who swap gear amongt themselves for quite a while. One of us has a pretty serious condition so the above is actually triggering me to have a good conversation with him about the above.

Unfortunately none of us local synthheads made it into the spotlight! (..Allowing for a public auction of our ..'legacy')
 
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Apreggiator said:
This is exactly why every town(ship) should have an audio club or gear library, I've been trying to get one off here for a while now. The level of individuality wihtin local Audiophile circles (read snobbery) is hard to break through though.

For synths/music making gear we have a circle of likeminded individuals in the region who swap gear amongt themselves for quite a while. One of us has a pretty serious condition so the above is actually triggering me to have a good conversation with him about the above.

Unfortunately none of us made it into the spotlight!
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I’ve been trying to find this kind of community in the St. Cloud, MN area for some time, but with no luck. There are some enthusiasts down in the Twin Cities, but that’s a 70 mile drive from here. I like being able to learn from others, and listening to the systems others have created can provide a quick reality check. :thumbsup:
 
My buddy passed about 10 years ago leaving behind a very sizable audio collection in his home and an even bigger one at his storage facility. His girlfriend (retired nurse) wanted nothing to do with it and his only relative was his sister who was a school teacher and her physician husband. To say they didn't care about vintage audio was an understatement. If it wasn't for my intervention all that Mac, Altec, Luxman, tube gear etc. would've gone straight into the 30 yard dumpster sitting his driveway.

I found out quickly that stuff that means the world to the owner does not have the same value for the people left behind that have to deal with it. Getting the good stuff to homes was a lot of work which took me about a year of constant selling. I'll admit there were occasions when I felt like tossing it all rather than dealing with the Craig"s flakes, no shows and worst of all the lowballers.

I agree; unless there's a person knowledgeable about vintage audio involved chances are it's headed for the scrap heap when the owner passes.
 
motorstereo said:
My buddy passed about 10 years ago leaving behind a very sizable audio collection in his home and an even bigger one at his storage facility. His girlfriend (retired nurse) wanted nothing to do with it and his only relative was his sister who was a school teacher and her physician husband. To say they didn't care about vintage audio was an understatement. If it wasn't for my intervention all that Mac, Altec, Luxman, tube gear etc. would've gone straight into the 30 yard dumpster sitting his driveway.

I found out quickly that stuff that means the world to the owner does not have the same value for the people left behind that have to deal with it. Getting the good stuff to homes was a lot of work which took me about a year of constant selling. I'll admit there were occasions when I felt like tossing it all rather than dealing with the Craig"s flakes, no shows and worst of all the lowballers.

I agree; unless there's a person knowledgeable about vintage audio involved chances are it's headed for the scrap heap when the owner passes.
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Sad but true more often than not. And rehoming just delays the inevitable final demise, along with increasing maintenance difficulties & expenses as time goes on.
 
damacman said:
I recently oversaw the estate sale of my best friend's entire vintage audio collection (massive) when he passed. The family was compensated fairly and the buyer got a bargain.

So, bark up another tree.
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Your example is the exceedingly rare one that proves the point. I've been there with the appraisers and estate sale tagging folks and almost everything that you own, even the things that you consider to be rare/valuable/special/worthy of passing to the next generation, they aren't. Only the rarest and most exclusive art has value, occasionally a piece of furniture has enough value to trouble with. 99.9% of the items in our lives have NO value to anyone else including our kids and other family members.

Tag sales are held to clear out the stuff, not to generate revenue in any real sense.

It can hurt in an existential way but it is the truth.
 
I think there will be a market for big, heavy, pretty amps as long as there are people with so much money they don't have anything better to do with it (I mean what are they going to do, spend thousands of dollars on ....wine?... wristwatches?... sports cars?). Do they work better than the cheap stuff? Maybe at some edge case situations, but for normal listening, probably not. A lot of what you pay for in big heavy amps is machining the metal - front panel and heatsinks. That costs money- though machining is probably done by robots, handling the materials so they don't get scraped, scratched, etc., and fancy finishes add to the cost. A lot of the weight comes from power transformers and huge filter caps, both expensive parts that primarily come into play at those "edge cases" and have little effect at normal listening levels, driving "normal" speakers.

If you took the circuit boards out of an expensive amp, would you be able to tell if it came from and expensive amp? I see Chinese copies of some "classic" big-iron amps that look pretty good, including the parts they put on them (yeah, I know, counterfeits.... maybe). I also see pretty metal cases for amps that copy designs from Pass Labs, etc. for sale at pretty good prices.
 
DavidTT said:
Your example is the exceedingly rare one that proves the point. I've been there with the appraisers and estate sale tagging folks and almost everything that you own, even the things that you consider to be rare/valuable/special/worthy of passing to the next generation, they aren't. Only the rarest and most exclusive art has value, occasionally a piece of furniture has enough value to trouble with. 99.9% of the items in our lives have NO value to anyone else including our kids and other family members.

Tag sales are held to clear out the stuff, not to generate revenue in any real sense.

It can hurt in an existential way but it is the truth.
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It is sad that so many posters here have nobody in their lives who appreciate them and their hobbies enough to carry on.

I bought a vey beautiful McIntosh tube amp several years back from a widow, she knew that her late husband loved this stuff and that it would be worth something to someone. Her daughter put it on craigslist where I found it, it was a feeding frenzy and I was the first, in less than 5 minutes from posting. The price was market so no bargain either, the daughter had done her research. She was overwhelmed and they (she and daughter) very happy to show me through his gear and sell me what interested me, which I bought at a fair (maybe even high) price and gave to my son (who is in his 20s, and also appreiates it). No landfill, no scrap, good quality items are still desirable.

When I pass, I have four children who appreciate the collections that I have, all high-quality, a couple of audio systems, firearms, boats, cars, tools, ... the brilliant-period cut crystal might not be as popular among my children but they know it has value beyond landfill, ... what they don't want to keep for themselves they know enough to auction/sell/donate.

What @damacman experienced with his friend is not that rare in someone who has a large quality collection and friends and/or family. For the guy who has a basement or storage unit full of miscellaneous broken and needing repair mid-level vintage audio however? Likely it is going to be sold cheap or scrapped, there is a difference. One is a collection and the other is a hoard (I've been to sales of both).
 
Gigantic said:
Unless you guys in your 70's and 80's have mentored or established friendships with younger hi-fi enthusiasts, your stuff is probably heading for the landfill or goodwill, unless you start making arrangements now
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Yes, you have to be an audio enthusiast to appreciate a 63 lb. amp; it's a boat anchor to everyone else.
I am in my 70's (but in good health) so my audio gear will be hauled down to our local audio store for sale once I've gone bye bye.
Don't want to see it end up in a landfill.
 
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