Budget Alternative to TD124

[Amorphous1]

Hello AKers


I'm searching for my first turntable. I really like the td124. I been trying to pounce on a good deal but the prices of those tend to stay north of $1700 these days. I was wondering if there is any budget alternative that has some of those td124 properties.



I only heard one once and it sounded great! Otherwise I'm using YouTube videos to compare*. For what I've gather the td124 has a nice dynamic and fluid sound with meaty lower mids and strong rythmic bass (not overdone or one note). I was looking at a td121 but those have also risen in price and from the examples I've heard (once again not the best account) they don't have that full body or great bass. I looked at the lenco 75 but they seem to focus more on the upper mids and trebel, lacking that low end as well.


Of the idlers it appears to my LIMITED knowledge that the lenco has the most well done top end, the thorens is in the middle with good top end but present bottom end, and the Garrard has the strongest bottom end and slightly recessed top end?


As for other audiophile tables I gone to a dealer and checked out the clearaudio concept wood, rega p3,p6, studiodeck and didn't really feel like there was anything I couldn't get on thru digital. I listened to the vpi classic (jww 12 & ortofon black) and checked out the hw19 on the tube. Seem to me audiophile turntables don't really resolve lower mids or do bass as good as the td124.


Right now I'm leaning towards an ariston rd11. It's close enough to a linn that I can explore those after market upgrades. I think it does good dynamics while remaining very fluid (can really find anything with the bass or lower mids under $1000). I'm thinking of pairing it with a Shure m3d. But I decided it could hurt to ask the community before I pull the trigger.


Anyone out there who's heard the td124 that can point me a good direction.


*Yes yes not the best source but sue me not a lot of places to audition vintage audio.

 

[jobrewer1983]

Hello AKers


I'm searching for my first turntable. I really like the td124. I been trying to pounce on a good deal but the prices of those tend to stay north of $1700 these days. I was wondering if there is any budget alternative that has some of those td124 properties.



I only heard one once and it sounded great! Otherwise I'm using YouTube videos to compare*. For what I've gather the td124 has a nice dynamic and fluid sound with meaty lower mids and strong rythmic bass (not overdone or one note). I was looking at a td121 but those have also risen in price and from the examples I've heard (once again not the best account) they don't have that full body or great bass. I looked at the lenco 75 but they seem to focus more on the upper mids and trebel, lacking that low end as well.


Of the idlers it appears to my LIMITED knowledge that the lenco has the most well done top end, the thorens is in the middle with good top end but present bottom end, and the Garrard has the strongest bottom end and slightly recessed top end?


As for other audiophile tables I gone to a dealer and checked out the clearaudio concept wood, rega p3,p6, studiodeck and didn't really feel like there was anything I couldn't get on thru digital. I listened to the vpi classic (jww 12 & ortofon black) and checked out the hw19 on the tube. Seem to me audiophile turntables don't really resolve lower mids or do bass as good as the td124.


Right now I'm leaning towards an ariston rd11. It's close enough to a linn that I can explore those after market upgrades. I think it does good dynamics while remaining very fluid (can really find anything with the bass or lower mids under $1000). I'm thinking of pairing it with a Shure m3d. But I decided it could hurt to ask the community before I pull the trigger.


Anyone out there who's heard the td124 that can point me a good direction.


*Yes yes not the best source but sue me not a lot of places to audition vintage audio.

Welcome to AK,

I think you should do some serious research prior to buying a table. I think you put to much emphasis on the deck itself. I have a nice Linn, but my Sony and Kenwood tables sound better. The goal is to have no surface noise on the platter of any given table. A good arm and a good cart properly set up is the way to go.

You won’t find anyone recommending an alternative as there is not one. There are other brands such as Linn and ariston.

A low buck suspension table is the AR tables. The arm is integrated but all the same suspension/belt fed tables.

Good luck on the hunt!

 

[Mister Pig]

The TD 124 is a somehwat unique table, in that it is a hybrid belt and idler drive, and also uses isolation mushrooms while most idlers are bolted firmly to a massive plinth. Then there is the two piece platter system, which will have its own characteristics.

In the past I have owned a TD 124 and a Loricraft restored Garrard 401, and both are nice tables with a distinctive presentation. I eventually re-homed mine with another AKer so that I could afford to purchase a pair of JBL 4365 speakers. They were nice tables.

So the question of what is like a TD 124? Well nothing exactly, however I do seem to recall there is a Japanese idler out there that does use a hybrid drive system. Might have been a Nivco, don't think it was a Neat. Perhaps a Trio?

However, I did find a very affordable drive unit from Japan that had many of the same strengths a TD 124 did. Did it sound exactly like one? No. But its very good and affordable. That would be the Denon DP 75. The table is a bit more rich and full in the mid band than most DD tables, and yet is refined and delicate. I found it to be my favorite of the DD tables. The other DD I bought is a Technics SP 10 MK II, which would be closer in presentation to the Garrard, however with a lower noise floor and more texture. Yet the 401 excelled in dynamic expression and visceral slam. The 401 is the king of that kind of sound.

As much as I like those tables, my end game table is going to be a current production Sota Cosmos. Now you can find Gen 3 Sota Sapphire and Star Sapphire tables for a reasonable price from time to time. As long as they are transported properly the sapphire bearing is undamaged, and you get a table that is great for detail, micro-dynamic expression, and subtle layering of music. I liked the Gen 3 I trialed so much I ended up ordering the Cosmos.

As far as sleepers go, one I suspect might be interesting is the Teac TN 400 Magnefloat. I found essentially a NOS one for $500, and am having a plinth built for it. The construction is very nice in many regards, and I am curious to hear how it works out. The Marc Morin modified AR XA are excellent, and certain folks like Steve Frosten or Larry Spence may be able to build one. Merill also modified AR tables, and if you can find one on the used market there could be great value there also. Finally the early Well Tempered tables are an innovative design. In the past its been hard to find belts for them, but I hear from other owners that the newly offered LP Gear belts for Well Tempered are very good and get the job done. An out of the box alternative to consider.

Just a few thoughts from a simple country pig. We like good food, warm sun, and soft hay. If you want another opinion go ask the cows for they are wise. Do not talk to the chickens for fowl are known liars and they cheat at cards.

Cheers
Mister Pig

 

[jobrewer1983]

The TD 124 is a somehwat unique table, in that it is a hybrid belt and idler drive, and also uses isolation mushrooms while most idlers are bolted firmly to a massive plinth. Then there is the two piece platter system, which will have its own characteristics.

In the past I have owned a TD 124 and a Loricraft restored Garrard 401, and both are nice tables with a distinctive presentation. I eventually re-homed mine with another AKer so that I could afford to purchase a pair of JBL 4365 speakers. They were nice tables.

So the question of what is like a TD 124? Well nothing exactly, however I do seem to recall there is a Japanese idler out there that does use a hybrid drive system. Might have been a Nivco, don't think it was a Neat. Perhaps a Trio?

However, I did find a very affordable drive unit from Japan that had many of the same strengths a TD 124 did. Did it sound exactly like one? No. But its very good and affordable. That would be the Denon DP 75. The table is a bit more rich and full in the mid band than most DD tables, and yet is refined and delicate. I found it to be my favorite of the DD tables. The other DD I bought is a Technics SP 10 MK II, which would be closer in presentation to the Garrard, however with a lower noise floor and more texture. Yet the 401 excelled in dynamic expression and visceral slam. The 401 is the king of that kind of sound.

As much as I like those tables, my end game table is going to be a current production Sota Cosmos. Now you can find Gen 3 Sota Sapphire and Star Sapphire tables for a reasonable price from time to time. As long as they are transported properly the sapphire bearing is undamaged, and you get a table that is great for detail, micro-dynamic expression, and subtle layering of music. I liked the Gen 3 I trialed so much I ended up ordering the Cosmos.

As far as sleepers go, one I suspect might be interesting is the Teac TN 400 Magnefloat. I found essentially a NOS one for $500, and am having a plinth built for it. The construction is very nice in many regards, and I am curious to hear how it works out. The Marc Morin modified AR XA are excellent, and certain folks like Steve Frosten or Larry Spence may be able to build one. Merill also modified AR tables, and if you can find one on the used market there could be great value there also. Finally the early Well Tempered tables are an innovative design. In the past its been hard to find belts for them, but I hear from other owners that the newly offered LP Gear belts for Well Tempered are very good and get the job done. An out of the box alternative to consider.

Just a few thoughts from a simple country pig. We like good food, warm sun, and soft hay. If you want another opinion go ask the cows for they are wise. Do not talk to the chickens for fowl are known liars and they cheat at cards.

Cheers
Mister Pig

So 3-4 tables that run the same price range as the 124.

The 124 is a nice deck, the tables you mentioned are nice tables. I have listened to a few of the Sp-10 MKII's, there is one at our local shop right now for $1500, with a VIP arm. I have listened to 2 124s, only 2 so I am no expert on the table. I do know that a lot of folks mount the SME to it. That is one arm I know, and know well enough to talk about it.

I think once you get the platter noise down to zero, the only real characteristics of what you are hearing is from the arm, and the cart and the pressing of the LP itself.

I am a big fan of tables, I do realize that a table can cause the sound of an album to change. That said, I think its miniscule, I think that once you get the platter zeroed out, there is nothing the arm can pick up to produce any difference in play back.

Pound of gold, pound of feathers kind of thinking.

You are talking about really top end tables, all of them have the ability to produce 0 sound on the platter.

Little upgrades like slip mat material can vastly help, dialing in a tonearm as well. Knowing compliance between arms and carts.

If were to apply the same arm and cart to each of the tables you listed, I don't think you will hear much of a difference.

I'm all for a top end TT, but once you get to that level, the arm/cart really do the most changes.

For example If you took your Sota table, and set it up against the 124d with the same arm and cart, I doubt you would hear much of a difference. start swapping arms and carts than you will. Lower end tables can sound different due to the motor not being as refined, less dampening, lesser quality materials ect… A good quality table should have zero surface noise on the platter. Once that is achieved, the rest is up to the arm/cart and external factors.

I'm a big fan of the DD tables too, I do like the Denon tables, I think they are really well made, really robust motors, for what you said above, that would be my choice.

Regards,
John

 

[Mister Pig]

So 3-4 tables that run the same price range as the 124.

The 124 is a nice deck, the tables you mentioned are nice tables. I have listened to a few of the Sp-10 MKII's, there is one at our local shop right now for $1500, with a VIP arm. I have listened to 2 124s, only 2 so I am no expert on the table. I do know that a lot of folks mount the SME to it. That is one arm I know, and know well enough to talk about it.

I think once you get the platter noise down to zero, the only real characteristics of what you are hearing is from the arm, and the cart and the pressing of the LP itself.

I am a big fan of tables, I do realize that a table can cause the sound of an album to change. That said, I think its miniscule, I think that once you get the platter zeroed out, there is nothing the arm can pick up to produce any difference in play back.

Pound of gold, pound of feathers kind of thinking.

You are talking about really top end tables, all of them have the ability to produce 0 sound on the platter.

Little upgrades like slip mat material can vastly help, dialing in a tonearm as well. Knowing compliance between arms and carts.

If were to apply the same arm and cart to each of the tables you listed, I don't think you will hear much of a difference.

I'm all for a top end TT, but once you get to that level, the arm/cart really do the most changes.

For example If you took your Sota table, and set it up against the 124d with the same arm and cart, I doubt you would hear much of a difference. start swapping arms and carts than you will. Lower end tables can sound different due to the motor not being as refined, less dampening, lesser quality materials ect… A good quality table should have zero surface noise on the platter. Once that is achieved, the rest is up to the arm/cart and external factors.

I'm a big fan of the DD tables too, I do like the Denon tables, I think they are really well made, really robust motors, for what you said above, that would be my choice.

Regards,
John

Afraid we are going to have to disagree on some of those costs. A Denon DP 75 drive unit is typically under $600. A SP10 MK II around 1000 to 1200. A good TD 124 drive unit is usually 1500 or more.

Have found Sota Star Sapphire Gen 3 in the 700 range. Well Tempered whole tables in the 1000 range.

Would also diaagree that good tables are completely inert of coloration. Its a matter of how resonances are balanced to what the end outcome is. Every element of the analog chain matters, and it all starts with the quality of the drive unit and plinth.

Cheers
Mister Pig

 

[jobrewer1983]

Afraid we are going to have to disagree on some of those costs. A Denon DP 75 drive unit is typically under $600. A SP10 MK II around 1000 to 1200. A good TD 124 drive unit is usually 1500 or more.

Have found Sota Star Sapphire Gen 3 in the 700 range. Well Tempered whole tables in the 1000 range.

Would also diaagree that good tables are completely inert of coloration. Its a matter of how resonances are balanced to what the end outcome is. Every element of the analog chain matters, and it all starts with the quality of the drive unit and plinth.

Cheers
Mister Pig

I too have seen them for a grand, roughly the price of a 124...

https://www.ebay.com/i/123689030459...MI7Mjq57i65AIVENRkCh1LUQ1LEAQYAiABEgLu5_D_BwE

"Would also diaagree that good tables are completely inert of coloration. Its a matter of how resonances are balanced to what the end outcome is. Every element of the analog chain matters, and it all starts with the quality of the drive unit and plinth".

I didn't say completely, but we will have to disagree as I think you must be one of the people who have super sonic hearing. You can dump as much $$ into a table and go for big brand names or obscure ones, but at the end of the day, they are trying to achieve the same thing. No noise on the platter surface.

What you are implying is that the said company is adding coloration to there turntables with the materials they use. In fact, they try to do the exact opposite. They try to remove anything that adds coloration to the sound stage, or dampen it to the extent that it cant be picked up through the arm. This is day one stuff, will a Sota table sound really good, yes, and why? The materials used dampen the sound that the table produces via the motor. Not rocket science.

Once that is achieved you will be able to remove the sound that the table produces and is picked up by the arm/cart. This will allow you to play the LP in a state that is not affected by the sound of the bearing or motor drive.

Day 1 stuff, this all plays into the history of belt drive tables, the idea behind the belt was to isolate the motor vibration. Correct?

Again, im not dumping on you for liking good tables, I too like them and have a closet full of them. that said, have you ever done any blind listening between tables?




​

 

[Markoneswift]

most importantly - are your downstream components capable of enough resolution that you can actually TELL the difference between one turntable and another? My equipment is very modest and, to me, turntables all sound very similar. There are differences of course, but without all the other components being capable of really revealing them, it's probably best not to get too hung up on turntable choice. I suppose it's a bit like wanting to own a Ferrari or something, but then finding that you really need a four wheel drive for those weekend fishing trips - the idea of a TOTL turntable might appeal, but is it practical for you?

 

[jobrewer1983]

most importantly - are your downstream components capable of enough resolution that you can actually TELL the difference between one turntable and another? My equipment is very modest and, to me, turntables all sound very similar. There are differences of course, but without all the other components being capable of really revealing them, it's probably best not to get too hung up on turntable choice. I suppose it's a bit like wanting to own a Ferrari or something, but then finding that you really need a four wheel drive for those weekend fishing trips - the idea of a TOTL turntable might appeal, but is it practical for you?

well said, and killer avatar

 

[Legrace]

Again, im not dumping on you for liking good tables, I too like them and have a closet full of them. that said, have you ever done any blind listening between tables?

Please share what you have. Not common to encounter folks with a closet full of higher end tables.

 

[jobrewer1983]

Please share what you have. Not common to encounter folks with a closet full of high end tables.

You can look at my profile and threads to see what I’m playing with.


That’s what I’ve got out now ^^

 

[jobrewer1983]

Please share what you have. Not common to encounter folks with a closet full of higher end tables.

I’ve got a few linns in the closet, I live in a Audio rich area, I get tables in often, I usually restore them and keep what I want and swap or sale out the rest.

 

[Legrace]

Nice Sony!

 

[jobrewer1983]

Nice Sony!

Yea I really like the Sony, it will best my LP12 all day. Mind you it’s the SME, and a more robust table.





Killer avatar, you running the grace?

I’ve got a few arms for the linns, I got into linn a few years back. I like the looks of the deck.



Axis in the background ^^

It’s my area, I find good gear often.

 

[Legrace]

Presumably you have posted in the cats on gear thread, incredible how you got them to pose like that! You also seem to have an affinity for speakers!

 

[jobrewer1983]

Presumably you have posted in the cats on gear thread, incredible how you got them to pose like that! You also seem to have a thing for speakers!

I have, many times

I didn’t do it, I just got lucky one evening and they jumped up on the gear. I took like 30 pix as fast as I was able to and that was the only one they all looked at me. Just luck.

I don’t really have a thing for speakers, just restoration work, I recently gave a few sets of speakers away to a local member. Big JBL fan tho, have ran many sets. If you look my user name up on YT you can see some of the past sets. I’m just passionate about audio. I like gear but it’s the music for me. I’m just lucky and live in a great area for used gear.

 

[adnick]

Some great advice given so far....below is my meager input.

Was commiserating on my re-entry into the turntable world again, the TD 124 was on my short list of contestants.


Ended up with a Denon DP 75, upgraded the arm, and cartridge, and plan on one or two other cartridges, and I’m more than pleased with the system.

Description of my DP 75–It’s beautiful in both form and function.

 

[Mister Pig]

I too have seen them for a grand, roughly the price of a 124...

https://www.ebay.com/i/123689030459...MI7Mjq57i65AIVENRkCh1LUQ1LEAQYAiABEgLu5_D_BwE

"Would also diaagree that good tables are completely inert of coloration. Its a matter of how resonances are balanced to what the end outcome is. Every element of the analog chain matters, and it all starts with the quality of the drive unit and plinth".

I didn't say completely, but we will have to disagree as I think you must be one of the people who have super sonic hearing. You can dump as much $$ into a table and go for big brand names or obscure ones, but at the end of the day, they are trying to achieve the same thing. No noise on the platter surface.

What you are implying is that the said company is adding coloration to there turntables with the materials they use. In fact, they try to do the exact opposite. They try to remove anything that adds coloration to the sound stage, or dampen it to the extent that it cant be picked up through the arm. This is day one stuff, will a Sota table sound really good, yes, and why? The materials used dampen the sound that the table produces via the motor. Not rocket science.

Once that is achieved you will be able to remove the sound that the table produces and is picked up by the arm/cart. This will allow you to play the LP in a state that is not affected by the sound of the bearing or motor drive.

Day 1 stuff, this all plays into the history of belt drive tables, the idea behind the belt was to isolate the motor vibration. Correct?

Again, im not dumping on you for liking good tables, I too like them and have a closet full of them. that said, have you ever done any blind listening between tables?




​

People have different ways of valuing tables, and their perspective of what is important in a system, and or where to spend the most money.

I have owned a TD 124 and a 401, so from my perspective I would feel my observations are based in real world experiences. Please inform us about the amount of time you have spent with the TD 124?

"What you are implying is that the said company is adding coloration to there turntables with the materials they use. In fact, they try to do the exact opposite."

This is YOUR interpretation of what I said. Which is NOT what I said. My point is that tables are not free of colorations since they are mechanical devices. Now the designer may work hard at reducing or eliminating them, however every table is going to have them to one degree or another, even some very expensive models. Now the best of the best may have pushed those colorations to miniscule levels, but we are not talking about the Goldmund Reference table or the Rockports are we. Every table I have owned has a unique presentation, and they can be identified. Now one can say the ultimate goal is to have the drive unit generate no noise, that the tone arm only guides the cartridge, and the final sound is ultimately defined by the cartridge. Yet that is a theoretical exercise that does not hold true in the real world of table operation. All tables create mechanical energy and resonance to some degree, there are levels of coloration and losses of fine information in every table/arm/cartridge combo. Its the nature of the system.

I have done plenty of comparisons, but I prefer not to do blind ones by myself. Nor do I trust anyone to cue my Ortofon A90, ZYX 4D, or Transfiguration Proteus. Its not going to happen. However, I have an arm that I can move from table to table and adjust VTA reliably in less than 20 seconds. It is amazing what you can discern when you can move an entire arm and cartridge quickly and just change drive units. They were ready to burn me at the stake here when I made the claim that the Technics SP 15 and 25 were very average tables. But I made direct comparisons to my Galibier Serac with the same arm and cartridge, and even had another AKer come over and confirm those differences. The point? Drive units matter in terms of sound quality.

I try not to stockpile too many pieces of audio gear. I do try to keep good quality tables around. They are not the most expensive, they are not the best, but I am content with them and the sound is very good.

But I am not here to convince anyone that my way is the best way or the only way. I am just passing my experiences on of what I had with the TD 124, and what alternative tables might be worth looking at. I have bought two DP 75 at points below $600. I have bought the SP 10 MK II in mint condition for $1000. The Teac TN 400 was basically unused and in original packing for $500. Now the TD 124 is a mighty fine table capable of excellent sound quality. You do not equal it for $250. That quality of machining, parts, and design cost real money. Sure collectibility drives price to an extent, yet it is still a formidable table. A Morin modified AR XA can come shockingly close, but that is still closer to $1K when its all said and done, and there are limitations to the arm for cartridge set up.

But as I said this is just the musings of a simple country pig. Life on the farm allows for basic pleasures like having the time to enjoy a good analog system.

Cheers
Mister Pig

 

[twiiii]

Just buy a new version of the SL-1200. You have 3 choices. Rumble is significantly. lower and W&F don't exist compared to a 124. An Empire 598 wipes a 124. Yes you will have to change arms for the Empire, but the basic table is far superior. Even a simple AR-xa out performs a 124. I have owned 111, 121 and used 124's for many hours and a 126 and 125 are much superior if you want to stick with Thorens. Now if your speakers don't respond below 50 HZ and all you listen to is rock I guess a 124 is acceptable, but other wise if you have a true Hifidelity system, you don't want a 124.

 

[Mister Pig]

Just buy a new version of the SL-1200. You have 3 choices. Rumble is significantly. lower and W&F don't exist compared to a 124. An Empire 598 wipes a 124. Yes you will have to change arms for the Empire, but the basic table is far superior. Even a simple AR-xa out performs a 124. I have owned 111, 121 and used 124's for many hours and a 126 and 125 are much superior if you want to stick with Thorens. Now if your speakers don't respond below 50 HZ and all you listen to is rock I guess a 124 is acceptable, but other wise if you have a true Hifidelity system, you don't want a 124.

Eh I dunno about that. I have owned two of the TD 125 MK II, set up with SME 3009 arms, and also a Mission 774. They are middling tables at best, and never did have an immediate and precise presentation as a 124. In the current market 125's are priced way over their sonic capability, as the nostalgia and the mid modern looks are what drives the prices for them. A well maintained 124 does not have idler noise, especially if updated with an Audio Silente idler wheel. the 125's are just vague and bloated in presentation. I have heard reports from owners who have built new frames for them and gotten meaningful improvements in sound quality. But in stock form, they are not impressive.

Cheers
Mister Pig

 

[jobrewer1983]

People have different ways of valuing tables, and their perspective of what is important in a system, and or where to spend the most money.

I have owned a TD 124 and a 401, so from my perspective I would feel my observations are based in real world experiences. Please inform us about the amount of time you have spent with the TD 124?

"What you are implying is that the said company is adding coloration to there turntables with the materials they use. In fact, they try to do the exact opposite."

This is YOUR interpretation of what I said. Which is NOT what I said. My point is that tables are not free of colorations since they are mechanical devices. Now the designer may work hard at reducing or eliminating them, however every table is going to have them to one degree or another, even some very expensive models. Now the best of the best may have pushed those colorations to miniscule levels, but we are not talking about the Goldmund Reference table or the Rockports are we. Every table I have owned has a unique presentation, and they can be identified. Now one can say the ultimate goal is to have the drive unit generate no noise, that the tone arm only guides the cartridge, and the final sound is ultimately defined by the cartridge. Yet that is a theoretical exercise that does not hold true in the real world of table operation. All tables create mechanical energy and resonance to some degree, there are levels of coloration and losses of fine information in every table/arm/cartridge combo. Its the nature of the system.

I have done plenty of comparisons, but I prefer not to do blind ones by myself. Nor do I trust anyone to cue my Ortofon A90, ZYX 4D, or Transfiguration Proteus. Its not going to happen. However, I have an arm that I can move from table to table and adjust VTA reliably in less than 20 seconds. It is amazing what you can discern when you can move an entire arm and cartridge quickly and just change drive units. They were ready to burn me at the stake here when I made the claim that the Technics SP 15 and 25 were very average tables. But I made direct comparisons to my Galibier Serac with the same arm and cartridge, and even had another AKer come over and confirm those differences. The point? Drive units matter in terms of sound quality.

I try not to stockpile too many pieces of audio gear. I do try to keep good quality tables around. They are not the most expensive, they are not the best, but I am content with them and the sound is very good.

But I am not here to convince anyone that my way is the best way or the only way. I am just passing my experiences on of what I had with the TD 124, and what alternative tables might be worth looking at. I have bought two DP 75 at points below $600. I have bought the SP 10 MK II in mint condition for $1000. The Teac TN 400 was basically unused and in original packing for $500. Now the TD 124 is a mighty fine table capable of excellent sound quality. You do not equal it for $250. That quality of machining, parts, and design cost real money. Sure collectibility drives price to an extent, yet it is still a formidable table. A Morin modified AR XA can come shockingly close, but that is still closer to $1K when its all said and done, and there are limitations to the arm for cartridge set up.

But as I said this is just the musings of a simple country pig. Life on the farm allows for basic pleasures like having the time to enjoy a good analog system.

Cheers
Mister Pig

I did state my experiences with the 124, I’ve listened to 2 of them. I’m not claiming to be an expert on the 124. I said that from the get go.

I agree your not going to get as good of a sound out of a 200 buck table, that was one point I was sure to make. I was talking about better quality decks.

I was only poking at ya when I said they they were the same price. I have found great tables too for pennies on the dollar, and I agree the tables you suggested are all great tables. good alternatives to the SQ the 124 can produce.

Yea idk If id let anyone play with that kind of gear either! the arms I have all have the ability to be adjusted not as fancy as yours but I can make the adjustments on them rather quickly as I’ve done it so many times it’s just natural for me. It’s a lot of fun to dial in an arm perfectly, it’s really eye opening once one gets it down. A digital scale was really a game changer in set up time. I work with tiny parts all day at work so swapping carts on head shells is a snap for me, I can dial in my arms with different carts rather quickly. It’s a lot of fun