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Budget Alternative to TD124

Amorphous1 said:
Thanks to everyone for replying to this thread. After much consideration I decided to buy a Denon DP-75. I got one for about $630 plus shipping which was expensive (a little much but ... safety). Much deliberation went into this decision.

I keep trying to do the math but the TD124 setup I wanted always pushed the price to $4000. So I had to look at my system. Every time i listen to the SPU(all two times haha, in real life anyways) it was on a three way system. I don't plan on going bigger than the JBL 4301b in the foreseeable future. That plus the special nature of the associated equipment to make it sing, I decided that I must dream a little smaller and have my dream differed <sob, sob>. So I decided to optimize for my second choice cart, DL-103.

I bought the DP-75 and a Fidelity Research FR54, both recently services and the sellers specialize in Japanese hifi. For now Im gonna use the schiit mani that I have on hand. The mani has many testimonials saying it works good with the DL-103. I know for a fact that Mike Moffat only added MC option to the mani for the the DL-103. Eventually I will upgrade to a hause SUT and EAR 834p, but my bank account will need to recover. Currently I am looking for a plinth for my table. When looking at the DP-75s, the only one that specified its repair nature was the one I bought, and that was plinthless. I am reading up on Denon DP threads here on audiokarma. If anyone knows a good plinth builder feel free to PM me.
Click to expand...

Larry Spence at Vintage Analog Restorations built the plinth for my Technics SP 10 MK II, and he is building one for the Teac TN 400 Magnefloat that I have. Here is a pic of his work.

SP10A (6).JPG SP10D (4).JPG SP10C (3).JPG plinth3.jpg

Now here is a link to a factory plinth on Ebay

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Denon-DK-2...477121?hash=item4208436941:g:UVkAAOSw8FFdct4l

Cheers
Mister Pig
 
Amorphous1 said:
Thanks to everyone for replying to this thread. After much consideration I decided to buy a Denon DP-75. I got one for about $630 plus shipping which was expensive (a little much but ... safety). Much deliberation went into this decision.

I keep trying to do the math but the TD124 setup I wanted always pushed the price to $4000. So I had to look at my system. Every time i listen to the SPU(all two times haha, in real life anyways) it was on a three way system. I don't plan on going bigger than the JBL 4301b in the foreseeable future. That plus the special nature of the associated equipment to make it sing, I decided that I must dream a little smaller and have my dream differed <sob, sob>. So I decided to optimize for my second choice cart, DL-103.

I bought the DP-75 and a Fidelity Research FR54, both recently services and the sellers specialize in Japanese hifi. For now Im gonna use the schiit mani that I have on hand. The mani has many testimonials saying it works good with the DL-103. I know for a fact that Mike Moffat only added MC option to the mani for the the DL-103. Eventually I will upgrade to a hause SUT and EAR 834p, but my bank account will need to recover. Currently I am looking for a plinth for my table. When looking at the DP-75s, the only one that specified its repair nature was the one I bought, and that was plinthless. I am reading up on Denon DP threads here on audiokarma. If anyone knows a good plinth builder feel free to PM me.
Click to expand...

Good shout. I was going to add more and ultimately recommend more or less what you have done. The 103 is a fine cartridge.
Regarding plinths be aware that the FR arm has a relatively long pillar so the depth of any plinth will need to take this into account.
If you want to go slate one way of doing this is to go to a stone supplier and have blanks sawn. Have enough layers to make your height. Then if you can find one in your area hook up with a water jet machining shop. They can cut stone easily and very accurately giving you the cut outs for the DP75 and for your arm mounting.
If you are using multiple layers of slate use a product called ' Green Glue ' to stick em all together. Its a visco elastic adhesive and used in this way makes whats known as a 'constrained layer' a very effective way of controlling spurious vibration.
Sorbothane is also you best buddy for feet. Plenty of hi fi products of this type but will be $$$ but you can buy sorbothane discs like here https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-LARGE-SO...-64x12mm-SILENT-PC-CASE-AMP-70D-/251441886583
Bear in mind that your deck will be pretty weighty so you may need to play about with this. Sorbothane is most effective under compression.

I don't think you will be disappointed with your deck when all built up.

M
 
just to give you an idea for diy slate plinth here's a uk seller with a piece that would do the trick.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Slate-He...086502?hash=item3d4e628ce6:g:OmQAAOSwfDhZgV65

That would yield 3 pieces 600 x 400 x30 mm , roughly big enough , resulting in a plinth with 90 mm depth. If you need deeper a lower plinth could be fabbed from mdf or whatever.
The waterjet cutters would leave you with really tidy edges that would all line up nicely as its a CNC run machine You would need to come up with a cutting plan in pdf.
 
Macaroonie said:
just to give you an idea for diy slate plinth here's a uk seller with a piece that would do the trick.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Slate-He...086502?hash=item3d4e628ce6:g:OmQAAOSwfDhZgV65

That would yield 3 pieces 600 x 400 x30 mm , roughly big enough , resulting in a plinth with 90 mm depth. If you need deeper a lower plinth could be fabbed from mdf or whatever.
The waterjet cutters would leave you with really tidy edges that would all line up nicely as its a CNC run machine You would need to come up with a cutting plan in pdf.
Click to expand...

Is there really that much of a jump in Sonic's with a slate plinth? I was gonna contact larry spence and request a constrained layer hard wood plinth.

I don't really want something bigger and heavier is no Sonic gain is gained. I heard slate tends to be more clean and clear and wood warmer.
 
My Denon DK110 constrained layer plinth is heavy enough already. In combination with the Reed tonearm performance in all aspects well exceeds anything else I've ever owned. The massive bulk of the plinth no doubt contributes in this regard. Can get a feel for how big these are comparing to Dual 721 neighbor below. Plus having a removable armboard is a real convenience. Made upgrading to the 12" arm straightforward.

denon&dual.JPG
 
Amorphous1 said:
Is there really that much of a jump in Sonic's with a slate plinth? I was gonna contact larry spence and request a constrained layer hard wood plinth.

I don't really want something bigger and heavier is no Sonic gain is gained. I heard slate tends to be more clean and clear and wood warmer.
Click to expand...
I think there is, at least for what I like and the Thorens 124 MKI
I do not use the rubber bumpers, I have the deck solidly mounted to the plinth. I think the dynamic range is better with slate. The TT definitely runs more quietly. I believe that to be simply due to the mass. I also think a more massive wood plinth would work nicely as well. The problem is slate is a bit pricey. I like the way it looks as well.
 
Amorphous1 said:
Is there really that much of a jump in Sonic's with a slate plinth? I was gonna contact larry spence and request a constrained layer hard wood plinth.

I don't really want something bigger and heavier is no Sonic gain is gained. I heard slate tends to be more clean and clear and wood warmer.
Click to expand...

In this part of the world slate is common and relatively inexpensive , our roofs are mainly slate and some of the nearby mountains are made of the stuff. It works really well for TT plinths but it does require specialist tools for working. The JBE turntable was very very good back in the day and it only had one slab.
Wood is more common of course and woodworking tooling is not that expensive , it does however beg the question , what type of wood ? Oak , pine , wenge , ash , mahogany etc etc They will all sound different.
they will all have a sonic signature. I would say that slate will overall be the most neutral as a material and sonically. Bonded as layers as I suggest will be better. still.
I don't know where you are located so supply of slate may not be as easy as it is here . Best to do a bit of research and price it , see how it plays out.
 
Macaroonie said:
...it does however beg the question , what type of wood ? Oak , pine , wenge , ash , mahogany etc etc They will all sound different.
they will all have a sonic signature.
Click to expand...

Which is why most of us, when building a high mass wood plinth, use quality void-free plywood. It's more inert than natural wood. I'm in the process of building a stacked plywood plinth for my TD124 that will be wrapped in 3/4" cherry hardwood for aesthetics.
 
Jota2 said:
I think there is, at least for what I like and the Thorens 124 MKI
I do not use the rubber bumpers, I have the deck solidly mounted to the plinth. I think the dynamic range is better with slate. The TT definitely runs more quietly. I believe that to be simply due to the mass. I also think a more massive wood plinth would work nicely as well. The problem is slate is a bit pricey. I like the way it looks as well.
Click to expand...


Never measured it but wouldn't a direct drive operating at 33.3 rpm be quieter the a small high rpm motor?
 
So regarding the original question, what was the upshot?

It’s not been 2 months yet since I became a TD124 owner. I’ve never lusted after one but I was told I should up my game regarding my turntable.

The shop I frequent had Linn, Mitchell, Lenco, Fons, to name a few plus some high end Japanese ones like Denon & Luxman.

I like idler drives and was quite happy with my Duals, Garrard and Elac changers. But that comment stuck with me. Eventually I was shown a mint TD124 II and found myself saying “I want it”.

Selling it was not decided on at that time but a visit or two later, I was told that I could have it if I wished. Despite others having expressed interest prior to myself. I guess it was in return for favours done, but it was acceptable tor me to spread payments over about two months.

I guess my point is that if you’ve sort of zeroed in a TD124 as a benchmark standard, you might as well act now if at all possible. They won’t be getting any cheaper. At least I hope they don’t for the sake of my investment.

I do believe I could have accomplished “upping my game” with one of the tables mentioned above, all with a significantly lower purchase price. But it would not have been the same. The allure and standing (cult or otherwise) of TD124’s would always make me think I settled for less. I figured it was there, I was there and the opportunity of one in similar condition may not present itself again so I succumbed to impulse and went for to. So far, no buyer’s remorse.
 
Amorphous1 said:
Never measured it but wouldn't a direct drive operating at 33.3 rpm be quieter the a small high rpm motor?
Click to expand...
Like you I never measured it. Jaap Pees of Hanze HiFi in the Netherlands has an will say the E50 motor is very quiet when it is in top shape and suspended with his motor mount upgrade. No motor is totally quiet.The photo shows the upgraded motor mounts and the AudioSilente idler wheel. Audiosilentes web page is worth a look to see the Blackstone deck.
Woodsong audio is worth looking at as well, Chris makes some amazing, beautiful plinths.

20180317_082729.jpg
 
Last edited:
OP said 'Thanks to everyone for replying to this thread. After much consideration I decided to buy a Denon DP-75. I got one for about $630 plus shipping which was expensive (a little much but ... safety). Much deliberation went into this decision.
 
Best description is....Used.

buttons for 33/45 are sticking and the 50hz /60hz is missing the button. But it turns on and has a generous amount of torque.

Still waiting on arm and on the list with spence for a plinth
 
Amorphous1 said:
Best description is....Used.

buttons for 33/45 are sticking and the 50hz /60hz is missing the button. But it turns on and has a generous amount of torque.

Still waiting on arm and on the list with spence for a plinth
Click to expand...
I wouldnt buy that missing buttons and sticking. So a SNAD return. Not for that kind of money.

Mister Pig
 
Amorphous1 said:
I think Ill go with a wood plinth this time and save slate for a future project. As I get a better handle on restorations.
In other news the first part of my turn table came today.
IMG_20190917_093754

IMG_20190917_093754

Denon dp75
Click to expand...

I was scanning the web for DP75 plinth options and ran across this :


And thought thats pretty nifty , hadn't seen that format before ( and I was a denon dealer )
So I made it slatey. Just floating ideas M

s-l1600 - 2.jpg
 
Amorphous1 said:
I think Ill go with a wood plinth this time and save slate for a future project. As I get a better handle on restorations.
In other news the first part of my turn table came today.
IMG_20190917_093754

IMG_20190917_093754

Denon dp75
Click to expand...

I was scanning the web for DP75 plinth options and ran across this :

s-l1600.jpg


And thought thats pretty nifty , hadn't seen that format before ( and I was a denon dealer )
So I made it slatey. Just floating ideas M OOPS see above

View attachment 1620428
 
Macaroonie said:
OP said 'Thanks to everyone for replying to this thread. After much consideration I decided to buy a Denon DP-75. I got one for about $630 plus shipping which was expensive (a little much but ... safety). Much deliberation went into this decision.
Click to expand...
Yep I did see that. However since the OP ask the question yesterday about motor noise I thought a reply was in order.
 
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